"Use of shot is not permitted"

[thesethawa]

I have had for a couple of years now a .69 caliber smoothbore musket. I deer hunt with it and love this gun. I use the gun as a shotgun quite often, loaded with 14 gauge wads and cards. One day I thought "What if I loaded it with buckshot and used it as a shotgun for muzzleloader season?" I bought a buckshot mold and cast a bunch of shot. I decided to double check the rules one more time to make sure it was okay. That was when I found myself scratching my head and frustrated with the muzzleloader regs in Arkansas. I looked a second time at the rules and noticed an unassuming little sentence that completely threw a wrench into my idea. 'Use of shot is not allowed.'

Here I have spent much effort making period correct, military type buckshot musket cartridges and now they're useless. I ask you all, why should buckshot not be allowed in large bore muzzleloaders? This gun is easily as deadly as a modern 20 gauge, and can be loaded with much larger buckshot. Even in the original military loads, which were of course black powder, it was called BUCK shot. There is no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to use buckshot in a muzzleloading shotgun. I want to know how I might send a letter or something to whoever it is appropriate to get this bad reg scrapped... Not really, because that would never work.

 

[waksupi]

In this area, few landowners will let hunters use buckshot. Too many wounded deer get away,

 

[thesethawa]

In this area, few landowners will let hunters use buckshot. Too many wounded deer get away,

That is more of an issue of the nature of shot itself, though. Front stuffer vs cartridge shouldn't be a major factor. There are many muzzleloading shotguns with chokes, just as there are many modern shotguns that are just a bored through cylinder. A hunter trying to shoot from too far away can happen both ways.

 

[64Springer]

The picture to your left is a .69 cal/14ga. Made her from a reproduction French flintlock musket.

She shoots .662 PRB like no nobody's business. Tight, tight, groups.

But she ain't worth a darn as a shotgun. It's cylinder bore. 32" barrel. At 25 yards, #4 buckshot, fully spreads out on a 20x20 target. 26 pellets. No lethal pattern at all.

Under no circumstances would I ever attempt to hunt deer with it. Couldn't get close enough. The only way I could hit a deer with this thing is if Bambi took me up on providing a lap dance.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I used to lobby in Arkansas for 2nd A rights and game and fish regulations. The members of the G&F commission are often not willing to make independent decisions. I have seen, more than once, poor advice given by unqualified individuals, particularly regarding ml issues, that was voted into law. FWIW, archery hunters often get regs passed that are favorable to them because they organize and lobby the commission. I used to do that when I was younger. Maybe you should take on the challenge and organize Arkansas ml'ers to do the same.

 

[thesethawa]

The picture to your left is a .69 cal/14ga. Made her from a reproduction French flintlock musket.

She shoots .662 PRB like no nobody's business. Tight, tight, groups.

But she ain't worth a darn as a shotgun. It's cylinder bore. 32" barrel. At 25 yards, #4 buckshot, fully spreads out on a 20x20 target. 26 pellets. No lethal pattern at all.

Under no circumstances would I ever attempt to hunt deer with it. Couldn't get close enough. The only way I could hit a deer with this thing is if Bambi took me up on providing a lap dance.

The pioneers mostly used smoothbore guns. Your charge weight and wadding can make a huge difference. That sounds like it's just blowing out the load, because a proper pattern should rival a cylinder bore modern shotgun.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Very poor choice for deer, no matter what its shot out of,the other two legged type of varmits O.K.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

In VT only a single projectile is allowed during muzzleloader season but you can use buckshot during the regular gun season.

 

[French Colonial]

The pioneers mostly used smoothbore guns. Your charge weight and wadding can make a huge difference. That sounds like it's just blowing out the load, because a proper pattern should rival a cylinder bore modern shotgun.

Define pioneers, give us a timeframe. This is misinformation for the most part.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Very poor choice for deer, no matter what its shot out of,the other two legged type of varmits O.K.

I have no experience or knowledge on the subject. However, the use of buckshot in modern shotguns for deer was/is widely practiced.

 

[64Springer]

I've played with this thing quite a bit. The closest I've come to a decent pattern is using a fiber wad cut in thirds and coated with bee's wax and coconut oil. I detest using separate over powder cards, thick cushion wads and thin over shot cards.

I've tried 50, 60 and 70 grains of 1.5F Swiss. That's all I could find to purchase.

If anyone in muzzle loading land has a tried and true .69 cal. cylinder bore recipe, I'm all ears. Actual experience only.

 

[thesethawa]

Define pioneers, give us a timeframe. This is misinformation for the most part.

In the age of flintlocks, great numbers of hunters and miscellaneous country folk used smooth-bore guns like trade guns, fowlers and fusils. They even made smoothbore versions of the rifles people used at the time, though I think nobody fired much buckshot from a .32-.50 caliber gun, which I've only heard called "smooth-rifles". The period I'm mostly talking about is the period from colonization until the percussion guns became common.

 

[earlwb]

I use 16 gauge power pistons in my .69 cal musket. That made the shot group nicely. The power piston cups the shot some as it leaves the barrel. It turned out to be a decent bird gun then. It is a awesome shooter using the huge .69 cal minie balls too. 750 grain monsters traveling at a moderate pace. Lyman made the bullet mold years ago. Anyway you might try some power pistons with your shot loads.

 

[thesethawa]

I've played with this thing quite a bit. The closest I've come to a decent pattern is using a fiber wad cut in thirds and coated with bee's wax and coconut oil. I detest using separate over powder cards, thick cushion wads and thin over shot cards.

I've tried 50, 60 and 70 grains of 1.5F Swiss. That's all I could find to purchase.

If anyone in muzzle loading land has a tried and true .69 cal. cylinder bore recipe, I'm all ears. Actual experience only.

Do you say you "detest" it as in you hate doing it, or got bad results?

 

[64Springer]

I use 16 gauge power pistons in my .69 cal musket. That made the shot group nicely. The power piston cups the shot some as it leaves the barrel. It turned out to be a decent bird gun then. It is a awesome shooter using the huge .69 cal minie balls too. 750 grain monsters traveling at a moderate pace. Lyman made the bullet mold years ago. Anyway you might try some power pistons with your shot loads.

This is something that's been bouncing around in my head. I've search for 16ga wad/cups and can't locate any.

May I ask where you found the 16ga components?

Thank you.

 

[64Springer]

Do you say you "detest" it as in you hate doing it, or got bad results?

Bad results.

Like that huge wad was traveling through the shot.

A few times the full size wad impacted the target.

 

[thesethawa]

I've only tried them with birdshot, I'll go shoot today and show how it does with buck

 

[thesethawa]

I saw a demonstration where a guy was using old wasp nest as wadding. Could maybe try that too

 

[French Colonial]

In the age of flintlocks, great numbers of hunters and miscellaneous country folk used smooth-bore guns like trade guns, fowlers and fusils. They even made smoothbore versions of the rifles people used at the time, though I think nobody fired much buckshot from a .32-.50 caliber gun, which I've only heard called "smooth-rifles". The period I'm mostly talking about is the period from colonization until the percussion guns became common.

Note that he says a smooth bored gun was a rarity, this was in the 1839-to-1842-time frame in your neck of the woods Arkansas.

This persistent opinion is wishful thinking of those who prefer smooth bores not supportable by documentation.

In the course of the day, we had seen a man pass by with a smooth-bored gun, and as such a thing was a rarity in the backwoods, the conversation turned on this circumstance.

Gerstäcker, Friedrich. Wild Sports in the Far West (p. 212). Good Press. Kindle Edition.

 

[brownac1983]

That's a weird rule. Are .32 caliber round balls permitted? If so, just use a bunch of those.