Use of a wad on a 50 cal rifle

[shawn_c992001]

Plundering in my basement stock of reloading supplies, I found a bag of 50 caliber .030 wads that I used when I was loading a 50-70 rifle I had. The 50-70 is long gone but the wads are still here. Just wondering what they could be used for other than fire starters.

 

[Richard Brinkman]

My experience with wads is that sometimes they help and sometimes not? If you have a rifle that isn't shooting as well as expected, burning patches or whatever try a wad but don't expect miracles. If it does help then you have something else to pack around and remember to use!

Richard

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have found that an over powder wad helps with both mini's and prb. :idunno:

 

[BrownBear]

You might want to compare the diameter of those with the bore of your ML. IIRC the ones I've used are .510 or a little larger. Not really a problem with thinner wads, but might be an issue for thick ones.

 

[Ron_T.]

I was truly surprised when I decided to check out the "usefulness" of the thin, over-powder vegetable "wad" I use in all my muzzle-loading, black powder rifle loads.

Actually, this "wad" is more like a thin biodegradable "disk" and I wasn't sure it really "did anything" for my loads or not, so I decided to find out.

I was really surprised when I compared 5 shots fired both WITH and WITHOUT those thin, little over-powder wads !~!~!

Using a bench-rest, a Lyman rifle rest and 3 sandbags, I shot 2 "sets" of groups consisting of 5 shots each after shooting perhaps 6 or 8 "warm-up" shots.

Using every "accuracy trick" I know, the group withOUT over-powder wads was at least TWICE as large as the group shot WITH over-powder wads.

I was so surprised that I decided to re-shoot the test... and I did... with the SAME results. I was completely surprised and just never figured those thin, little over-powder wads added so much to my and my rifle's accuracy

But, in truth, I've decided it's NOT the "wad" itself that is yielding better accuracy, I'm thinking it is because the wad is "there", compacting the powder charge thus forcing consistent pressure caused by consistent powder compression and density and thus, a CONSISTENT BURNING RATE of the powder... time-after-time... shot-after-shot !!!

I don't RAM the wad down on the powder, but I do insure the wad is definitely seated "solidly" on the powder charge which tends to combine and compact the charge of black powder in the base of the barrel.

Until I did this "test", I was going on what others had said about the value (or lack thereof) of using an over-powder wad on ALL my black powder loads.

Incidentally, all three of my rifles are .50 caliber... 2 Hawken cap-locks plus a Pennsylvania "Shenandoah" (by Traditions) flint-lock Long Rifle.

NOW... I "know" for myself...! :v


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[cynthialee]

A couple years ago a member mailed me some over powder cards and they did a wonderful job of tightening up my groups. So a wad or over powder card are always part of my load. It makes a big difference for me.
I haven't noticed any real difference between cards and wads as an over powder barrier to the PRB. As long as there is something there(even a nice wad of rolling papers) it works better.

 

[Zonie]

I can't figure out why the presence of a wad would make the powder compact any better than the underside of a patched ball would.

Maybe, it's just the fact that your ramming the powder load before loading the patched ball?

On the other hand, there's a chance that the reason its working better is the wad is sealing the area where the patch engages the rifling?

In theory, a bore size wad will tend to wrap itself around the back of the ball.
Of course, the distance around the back of the ball is pi/2 larger than the bore so there is a good possibility that if this happens, the edge of the wad will shrink down in size and never seal the bore.

Putting on my guessing hat for a minute, there is also the possibility that the wad gets blown all to hell when the powder ignites.

Pressures go from 0 psi to well over 5000 (and in some cases over 10000) psi in an instant. There's got to be a lot of turbulence and force right up close to exploding gunpowder.

If a wad started to be blown into fragments, I can see how the pieces easily would be blown into any gaps or leaks where the balls patch meets the bore.

That should stop any burning of the patch in that area which would assure the grip of the patch on the rifling leading to better accuracy.

OK. I'll go back to my armchair now. :grin:

 

[shawn_c992001]

Do they need to be lubed?

 

[jamesthomas]

I've never lubed mine, and they work fine.

 

[Ron_T.]

I can't figure out why the presence of a wad would make the powder compact any better than the underside of a patched ball would.

Maybe, it's just the fact that your ramming the powder load before loading the patched ball?

On the other hand, there's a chance that the reason its working better is the wad is sealing the area where the patch engages the rifling?

In theory, a bore size wad will tend to wrap itself around the back of the ball.
Of course, the distance around the back of the ball is pi/2 larger than the bore so there is a good possibility that if this happens, the edge of the wad will shrink down in size and never seal the bore.

Putting on my guessing hat for a minute, there is also the possibility that the wad gets blown all to hell when the powder ignites.

Pressures go from 0 psi to well over 5000 (and in some cases over 10000) psi in an instant. There's got to be a lot of turbulence and force right up close to exploding gunpowder.

If a wad started to be blown into fragments, I can see how the pieces easily would be blown into any gaps or leaks where the balls patch meets the bore.

That should stop any burning of the patch in that area which would assure the grip of the patch on the rifling leading to better accuracy.

OK. I'll go back to my armchair now. :grin:

************************************

I checked the patches... they're so nice and clean they could be used again. Therefore, it seems logical that the vegetable over-powder "cards" (or "wads" if that is what you wanna use, but the wads ARE more like "cards") SEEM to be protecting the patches.

Anyway, therefore it seems logical that the wad (card?) is protecting the patch and possibly giving a BETTER seal on the bore as well.

I haven't chronographed the muzzle velocity the muzzle velocity of either load, but did notice that the load NOT having the over-powder wad shot HIGHER on the target than the loads having the wad in place above the powder.

This makes me wonder if the wad is LOWERING the muzzle velocity rather than raising it?!?

By the same token, these targets were shot at only 25 yards off a Lyman adjustable, aluminum rifle rest with a sandbag under the rifle's forearm and two sandbags under the "toe" of the recoil pad with the rifle held TIGHTLY against my shoulder (via "bench-rest" shooter style)... and normally, my accurate off-the-bench is excellent. (No brag, just fact).

And so, this is a puzzle to me... and I'm not sure I will EVER determine the "right" or "wrong" of it.

I.E., is it possible a load with a LOWER M.V. will shoot HIGHER on the target at 25 yards off a solid bench-rest than a load with a HIGHER muzzle velocity?!?!?!?

I dunno... it may "go" either way... eh? :hmm:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[longcruise]

The lower velocity could impact higher. If you consider the factor of barrel time, the lower velocity load could be longer in the barrel allowing the muzzle to rise higher before the ball exits.

 

[shawn_c992001]

I will give them a try today. I will put them in with the load that the rifle likes and see what happens. Ain't nothing wrong with some trigger time.

 

[MJMarkey]

I like to use them especially when I am using a wet patch lube. The separation keeps the powder dry and unpolluted. It can't hurt.

 

[shawn_c992001]

Very good point!

 

[shawn_c992001]

Well after trying them they do help when a barrel is burning patches, but only slightly. The barrel on my .50 Springfield Hawken is definately going to have to be rebored so I will be calling Bobby Hoyt.

 

[EC121]

I have read of some people using another patch wadded up under the prb. Same principle. Supposed to help accuracy. Never tried it myself.

 

[cynthialee]

I have read of some people using another patch wadded up under the prb. Same principle. Supposed to help accuracy. Never tried it myself.

I have done this and it is the same as any other wad.

 

[hanshi]

In my experience wads, fiber, felt - leather, wasp nest, toilet paper, etc, - generally do help and I use them a lot. Are they really necessary? Probably not, but a little help is better than none.

 

[Paul R]

In my new Rice .58 jeager barrel, I was having lots of problems with burnt/cut patches & not so good accuracy. After trying all the new-barrel break-in suggestions from this site, I punched some leather wads which I tried, lubed, under a PRB. Groups tightened right up & patches were good enough to reuse. Worked for me.
Paul

 

[Clovis]

I had read posts by paulvallingdigham (sp?) where he suggested using overpowder wads in rifles and eventually tried it. I haven't gone back.

It does several things I think. First, when I would try to wipe between shots I would end up pushing crud down into the breech and have problems. As I started using two wonderwads over the powder I have found I don't need to wipe at all. Second, I think it gives consistent velocity from shot to shot by sealing the bore better or protecting the patch better or cleaning the bore the same between shots or cushioning the ball more or...it does something. Third, I think in my 1/48 barrels (all I have) the two wads lengthens the projectile to give a "like bullet" length to the patched ball and seems to do better in this twist. Would like others with different twists to try wads and see if improvements are experienced. (I will admit I have tried it in a ummentionable with a 1/28 and the patched ball is very accurate with this system.)

Nearly forgot to mention something interesting, in recovering patches down range, I once found a patch reversed over the two wads together in a neat little package. I thought that was very interesting and odd.

Just my findings and thoughts...