Upgrading Guns

[rancher]

I recently was reading a post (don't remeber which one) where people were saying you shouldn't upgrade cheap guns because there never amount to anything. Not exactly what was said , but general idea. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but just curious as to why? If you put upgraded parts on it why wouldn't the gun be better? I'm new to this stuff, so go easy. Thanks!

 

[tg]

Most production guns have a set value of sorts, even when you add stuff to them it just does not add any value as a rule unless you happen to find a buyer who is looking for that particular gun with the particular changes that have been made,the other issue that was mentioned is the historical aspect, most production guns cannot be altered to be much more like the ones from the past thus no gain can be made in this repect as well

 

[blacksmithman64]

Tailfins don't make a chevy into a cadillac. By the time you upgrade the lock and barrel; and maybe a curly maple stock, you could have had a low end custom gun with good parts in the first place! Kinda like throwing good money after bad.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Will agree that upgraded parts could make a "cheap" gun better. Have been frustrated a few times trying to make a bargain gun better. Part of the learning curve.

As previously posted, the upgrade/s probably will not add value when you sell.

Only looking at the money side of this, I think it is better to upgrade to a higher quality gun when you can rather than upgrade parts on a "cheap" gun... an exception might be a better barrel... but still hard to get some of the money back unless you auction the upgraded parts.

I have seen a lot of guns at gunshows over many years where people have upgraded them and could not get much, if any, of the cost back when selling or trading. Sometimes the "upgrades" actually decrease the selling price.

Just my way of looking at it as someone who prefers to upgrade to higher quality guns.

:hatsoff:

 

[CrackStock]

I had a T/C Hawken and wanted a better barrel. Then I wanted iron furniture. Then that coiled spring lock annoyed me. Then...

I have changed a T/C stock, had a replacement barrel built because the drop ins did not please me and done a lot of modifications of T/Cs and Lymans, but in the end they were not truly custom guns.

I decided that what I really wanted was a Tennessee, so I built it and used the Hawken just for deer hunting until I moved to a flint Lancaster which I finished from a kit supplied by our friend Slash and her husband.

The point is that you can make some upgrades to an intro gun, but it is not a custom gun. By the time you upgrade these things, you can often have a lot of money in them when getting a closer copy would have been about the same price and/or trouble.

Just my experience -- my friend RoundBall will surely disagree, but then that is why they make different flavors of ice cream -- to suit different tastes.

CS

 

[captaincaveman]

Just my opinion, so it's worth exactly what you payed for it. If you're upgrading to make the rifle more historically correct, forget it, it's a lost cause. If you're upgrading to increase value, forget it, it's a lost cause. If you're upgrading because you plan on keeping the gun forever and want to make it fit/perform better, go for it. T/C, for example, makes a great product, and you can't beat their customer service. They just don't have enough drop at the comb to fit me comfotably. Will a new stock make it a real Hawken? Not even close. Will a new stock make it fit me better? Sure will. It all depends on why you want to upgrade. Your milage may vary

Josh

 

[TANSTAAFL]

This is akin to the question a guy had in this month's American Rifleman. (NRA)

He had picked up a near pristine 03 Springfield and wanted information on sporterizing it?

And the answer was, you would be taking a $500.00 rifle, putting $300,00 worth of parts into it, and wind up with a $200.00 rifle.

Although your question poses a different scenario, putting a $300.00 saddle on a $20.00 pony, does not a racehorse make.

 

[arcticap]

If you put upgraded parts on it why wouldn't the gun be better?

The gun would be better, that's why after market replacement parts are available, i.e.- sight, lock, stock, barrel, etc... It's just that the upgrades can be expensive relative to the initial overall cost of the gun.
So maybe the added costs can't ever be fully recouped. But if the improvements make shooting the gun more enjoyable for the owner, then the money spent isn't wasted.
People often have preconceived notions about the value of certain brands of guns that would preclude them from ever buying one at a price that was higher than a used, basic economy model, even after being upgraded.
So before an upgraded gun is sold, the owner could reinstall the original parts before selling it, and then sell the replacement parts separately to recoup the added investment. Or only sell the original parts separately. Doing either would help to make any upgrades somewhat less costly in the long run. :winking:

 

[philo426]

It is the same issue with electric guitars.Even after you up-graded the pickups,tuning machines.tremolo etc you still would not get your money out of it.That is why it is best to startr with a quality gun in the first place.

 

[flintlockmdj]

If you want to upgrade it can be done by upgrading to a different gun. Say you start out with a CVA and want something better, insted of replacing parts and still having a CVA take the CVA and the money you would have spent and trade for a GPR. When you want something better you have a rifle with more cash value now than the CVA you started with so you take the GPR and your upgrade money and trade for a TC, then you trade for a used simi custom and a used custom and keep on untill you have a custom gun. It's not a quick fix but you will better yourself over a period of time and come out on top. Remember if you are wanting something better never trade down always up.

The only time that I would upgrade a cheep gun was if I was going to keep the gun indefinately or if a part had to be replaced, if you spend $35.00 on an original replacement sight and can get a better sight for $45.00 then upgrade.

 

The problem with factory guns is that they usually don't fit anyone very well. Some people THINK it fits, but that's often because they've never actually shot a gun that did. Unless you are changing calibre, I never could quite understand the point of changing out the barrel on a TC for instance. The barrel on a TC will shoot just fine. The lock on a TC is rough and somewhat cheezy, but it seems to work well so i doubt that you'll get a whole pile of performance advantage with a swap. The BIGGEST improvement you can make is to change the stock to one that fits properly and that is akin to changeing the body on an old car but keeping the drivetrain. It's often better to just sell the old car and buy a better one. Guns are like bra's. I heard somewhere that something like 70 or 80% of women are wearing bra's that don't fit properly and just don't know it.

 

[Headhunter]

Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder.

Do what you want to what you want.

In my eye, there are 3 muzzleloaders:

Production Guns

Custom Guns

and Custom Built Guns

Headhunter

 

[ssettle]

To each his own. I like the others wouldn't put money into anything unless I thought I could get it back. But on the other hand if I had a gun thats been with me for say 25 years it may have value to me. Case in point I have an old CVA I bought as a kit 25 years ago, a 50 caliber. I hunted with it for afew year and then I got myself one of those semi-custom jobs from Getz barrel company. His place is 30 mile from my place, anyway after that my CVA sat collecting dust. I knew the gun didn't have any value as far as selling it but I decided to give it new life. I ended up replaceing the lock with an L$R and putting a barrel liner in it and changed it into a 32 caliber small game rifle. Now it doesn't set in the cabinet anymore..Some may say thats a waste of money but then again it's my money...Ssettle

 

[Don B]

Guns are like bra's.

And I thought I had heard it all on this forum! :haha:

 

[CrackStock]

Different intro guns have different concerns.

Can you fix trigger pull length, amount of drop in stock, coiled spring lock, weak mainspring, soft frizzen, poorly made or placed trigger, cheap sights, brass furniture, oddly shaped furniture, mismatched parts; poor barrels...

Sure. You can fix anything, but the question is whether it is worth it to you?

I have fixed some and passed on others. Only you can answer that for you.

CS

 

[Dan lbsmyr]

IMHO, I think a person needs to ask himself "why am i doing this for this particular gun. If it is to practice gunsmithing, (like I did) it is still debateable if it was worth my time. Over the years I bought some used CVAs to tinker with and clean up and practice inlaying and browning and other various skills needed to make a custom gun. I made a huge mistake on the first one- less mistakes on the 2nd and third ones, and included carving and inlays. Now I have a Dixie pistol that someone started and grew frustrated with, and it is turning out great! He made a few mistakes on it, and I was greatly challenged to solve these errors. My point (if anyone is still reading) , If it is to make a cheap gun more valuable, I would say even with my past projects turning out pretty good, with wire inlays, carving, fine finishing, THEY ARE STILL LOW END GUNS!
But now I have most of my parts for and feel very ready for my next project, a 42" early Lancaster from a blank and QUALITY PARTS. Will I make mistakes -you bet, but I fell when it is done, it will have value in many ways.
Hope this helps
Dan :thumbsup:

 

[cheatherly]

And there are those who buy cheap guns,with the intent of 'fixing them up'. It's not always about the cash value of the gun, sometimes it's about the time and effort spent to make it yours.Refinishing and reshaping a cheap stock, tuning a trigger, maybe even changing sights.For some, this just as important as small groups.Of course a fifty dollar pawn shop rifle with 100 bucks worth of new parts will never compare to a custom rifle.At least not with my skill level!

 

[Charles D. Prokopp]

My two grupnicks worth: I cannot resist ringing some change on a kit gun. Sometimes something simple, like adding that low-end patch box to my CVA Kentucky rock lock. Right now, I'm going nuts with a Dixie Philadelphia Deringer kit. The kit, as sold, is really just a loose approximation of Henry Deringer's little pistols. The lines are somewhat similar, there are no inlays and the barrel is held in place by a pin run through two surface-mounted brass plates.
By dint of much research, I printed out online photos of several original pocket pistols and went to town. The barrel is now held in place by a wedge through a pair of heavy brass inlaid plates. I've copied all of the brass brightwork and am going to start on the checkering this weekend. The chunky stock that I received has been filed and carved down to the more slender, curvy form that the Philadelphia gunsmiths created.
Personally, I don't care if I've added value to the piece. It's MY little percussion pistol (Only percussion that I own), and it's going to look good!

 

[cheatherly]

I've had an Invest Arm hawkin look alike for two days and have already ordered replacement trigger guard, and been filling on the fore end cap.