I've ordered a southern mountain rifle from TVA. .45 cal., 13/16 x 42" barrel, steel furniture, p++ wood. I live in East Texas and would like to have a rifle representative of what might have been used here during the time between the War of 1812 and the War of Texas Independence (1830's). The rifle would have been used by a settler/hunter for deer and small game. I'd like to get your ideas on how this rifle should be finished; should the stain be dark or light, steel browned, blued or other. What type of rear and front sights would be used? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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hanshi
Cannon
I have one from them with all browned steel & plain maple. It's a .36x 3/4 x38". I love this style.
I have a 40cal browned steel ++ maple stock sights are primitive blade (tall) and was an un notched rear,I filed the rear per matts' suggestion with a hack saw blade,50 grns FFFg puts 3 shots you can just about cover with a dime @ 60 yrds 1/2 inch to the lt of the bullseye,no filing no nothin...boy was I surprised and impressed think that a browned metal rifle with that type of sites would "fit" for what you intend
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
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Just make sure it has an English lock, like a Late Ketland. A germanic lock makes it an anachrinism.
Bill
Bill
Tom Compton
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Used a .40 So Mtn rifle in your neck of the woods for a long time. Made from TOW parts. Browned with primitive sights and metal furniture.
TC
TC
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Sights, primitive or plain longrifle type with a flat top rear and copper base " dove tail" front sight with silver blade. I personally prefer the low style as did folks back then.
Since you got a pretty fancy stock you will want the curly maple stripes to "pop out gold" and the rest to be fairly dark. This is best accomplished with an acid stain like aqua-fortis.
Make sure you get the real stuff as some home made brews with the wrong type acid can turn the wood green. Some folks make an acid stain with vinegar and steel wool, barbed wire or old nails. The steel or iron used in the acid cannot be galvanized or stainless. The vinegar stain is a little milder than A-Fortis so it may take multiple applications. Research acid stain as this topic is complex.
Acid stain is applied then heated with something like a heat gun. The heat really activates the color. It will need to be neutralized with baking soda or it eventually it will turn maple black. Research this.
Since this is a 19th century gun you have many options in metal finish. Here's easiest to hardest.
No or little metal finish. The furniture and barrel should be filed smooth. You can even polish the lock bright. Then let the metal age on it's own or put down a light finish of cold blue to lightly gray it. When polishing do it by hand and do not polish away the details.
Browning. Browning makes the metal a dark brown. Some use a sweat box for this depending on humidity. It requires repeated applications of solution followed by rusting " sweat box" and carding "sanding". This is done until the desired finish is achieved. Make sure the bore is sealed and greased and the metal is clean. I like the heavy brown pitted look which requires more rusting between carding.
Rust blue. Same process as browning except the metal is boiled in water after carding. It produces a deep deep black.
Charcoal blue the barrel is literally heated in a trench of charcoal. Produces a translucent to deep blue black. Research this.
Rust blue with case colors. The barrel rust blue with the lock plate and butt plate case colored. This is how Hawkens and early cartridge guns were finished. It requires special equipment to case harden and is hard to achieve at home.
You can easily heat blue your screws by heating them with a torch until bluish purple and dropping then in a pail or cup of oil and water. A little cooking oil over water works well.
Bill is right for the most part about the English lock but there is at least one early Tennessee maker, 1790s who made Germanic style locks but this was early and rare on a Southern gun.
Some more option s for you to consider....
Mixing brass and iron. Some southerns are seen with a mix of hardware.
Taller hole or tallow or grease hole on the lock side of the butt stock. Some are simple round holes some are angled for thumb access some early ones are simply square boxes carved in the stock.
Poured pewter nose cap, It can be pain or finished like a chevron.
Butt plate omit. Some southerns are found with no butt plate. Some call these poor boys but many a fine southern gun was made without a butt plate.
Bone and horn stuff, Sometimes you find horn or bone inlays and nose caps, some times even front sights.
Iron patch box with a simple filed, spring nail latch.
If you research these southern guns you will find pretty much the sky is the limit.
Here is my 1810 North Carolina Gillespie, I did not build it... Link Gillespie
Since you got a pretty fancy stock you will want the curly maple stripes to "pop out gold" and the rest to be fairly dark. This is best accomplished with an acid stain like aqua-fortis.
Make sure you get the real stuff as some home made brews with the wrong type acid can turn the wood green. Some folks make an acid stain with vinegar and steel wool, barbed wire or old nails. The steel or iron used in the acid cannot be galvanized or stainless. The vinegar stain is a little milder than A-Fortis so it may take multiple applications. Research acid stain as this topic is complex.
Acid stain is applied then heated with something like a heat gun. The heat really activates the color. It will need to be neutralized with baking soda or it eventually it will turn maple black. Research this.
Since this is a 19th century gun you have many options in metal finish. Here's easiest to hardest.
No or little metal finish. The furniture and barrel should be filed smooth. You can even polish the lock bright. Then let the metal age on it's own or put down a light finish of cold blue to lightly gray it. When polishing do it by hand and do not polish away the details.
Browning. Browning makes the metal a dark brown. Some use a sweat box for this depending on humidity. It requires repeated applications of solution followed by rusting " sweat box" and carding "sanding". This is done until the desired finish is achieved. Make sure the bore is sealed and greased and the metal is clean. I like the heavy brown pitted look which requires more rusting between carding.
Rust blue. Same process as browning except the metal is boiled in water after carding. It produces a deep deep black.
Charcoal blue the barrel is literally heated in a trench of charcoal. Produces a translucent to deep blue black. Research this.
Rust blue with case colors. The barrel rust blue with the lock plate and butt plate case colored. This is how Hawkens and early cartridge guns were finished. It requires special equipment to case harden and is hard to achieve at home.
You can easily heat blue your screws by heating them with a torch until bluish purple and dropping then in a pail or cup of oil and water. A little cooking oil over water works well.
Bill is right for the most part about the English lock but there is at least one early Tennessee maker, 1790s who made Germanic style locks but this was early and rare on a Southern gun.
Some more option s for you to consider....
Mixing brass and iron. Some southerns are seen with a mix of hardware.
Taller hole or tallow or grease hole on the lock side of the butt stock. Some are simple round holes some are angled for thumb access some early ones are simply square boxes carved in the stock.
Poured pewter nose cap, It can be pain or finished like a chevron.
Butt plate omit. Some southerns are found with no butt plate. Some call these poor boys but many a fine southern gun was made without a butt plate.
Bone and horn stuff, Sometimes you find horn or bone inlays and nose caps, some times even front sights.
Iron patch box with a simple filed, spring nail latch.
If you research these southern guns you will find pretty much the sky is the limit.
Here is my 1810 North Carolina Gillespie, I did not build it... Link Gillespie
Thanks for the information, looks like you have done a lot of research on the subject. I have always liked the style of the southern rifle, but you have now made me think that it would be fun to read more about the rifles and the times and places they were used.
I've always liked the SMR style of rifle and am not familiar with its evolution in the Southern Mountains, nor have I read any documentation or information about these rifles. I always assumed these rifles had straight barrels and not swamped barrels. Are there any good book references of SMR's ?
Regards, Vic
Regards, Vic
54ball
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Vic,
Jerry Noble has at least two volumes dedicated to the Southern Long Rifle. From what I hear they are the best on the subject. You will have to contact Mr. Noble by phone to order the books. I've been meaning to order them for a while now. If you are interested in the books do a search or PM me and I will see if I still have that contact information.
Just about all early southern rifles had swamped barrels especially and maybe exclusively the hand forged barrels. The swamp on post 1800 southern rifles is very slight. So slight in fact you may not be able to tell with the naked eye, but it's there.
Jerry Noble has at least two volumes dedicated to the Southern Long Rifle. From what I hear they are the best on the subject. You will have to contact Mr. Noble by phone to order the books. I've been meaning to order them for a while now. If you are interested in the books do a search or PM me and I will see if I still have that contact information.
Just about all early southern rifles had swamped barrels especially and maybe exclusively the hand forged barrels. The swamp on post 1800 southern rifles is very slight. So slight in fact you may not be able to tell with the naked eye, but it's there.
Guest
There are four volumes. Notes on gunmakers, and pictures. Jerry's contact info is Phone-309-582-2852 Address
Jerry Noble
414 N.E. 7th Ave.
Aledo Illinois 61231
Jerry's low tech, like Tip Curtis, and your best bet is the phone. Order from him and you get signed copies. I have all four volumes, but you might want to get just one at a time. They are must have if you are into Southern guns, along with Ron Borron's scale drawings of specific rifles.
Bill
Jerry Noble
414 N.E. 7th Ave.
Aledo Illinois 61231
Jerry's low tech, like Tip Curtis, and your best bet is the phone. Order from him and you get signed copies. I have all four volumes, but you might want to get just one at a time. They are must have if you are into Southern guns, along with Ron Borron's scale drawings of specific rifles.
Bill
Bill & 54ball,
Great information and thanks ! I'll look into the books.
Bill - I'm about 25 miles south of the 45th Parallel, but in WI..........where I'm still waiting for this storm to subside. Right now my 4x4 truck is buried ( missed the road coming in last evening )and it will take awhile to open the road with the tractor.
Regards, Vic
Great information and thanks ! I'll look into the books.
Bill - I'm about 25 miles south of the 45th Parallel, but in WI..........where I'm still waiting for this storm to subside. Right now my 4x4 truck is buried ( missed the road coming in last evening )and it will take awhile to open the road with the tractor.
Regards, Vic
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