Traditions Kentucky?

[Black Hand]

The CVA/Traditions Kentucky has been in production for nearly 50 years.....It even outlasted Thompson Center.....
That is a pretty darn good legacy for something that some call "junk"....

Longevity isn't a reliable indicator of quality. Take domestic American beers as an example....

 

[jrmflintlock]

Longevity isn't a reliable indicator of quality. Take domestic American beers as an example....

I agree with you 100%, and in this instance its exactly the same thing!

Domestic American beer is what it is. Does it taste good, Some argue yes other argue No. Will it get you drunk in enough quantity, Some argue yes other argue no. Is it brewed in the same manner as import and craft beer.

The Traditions Flintlock is the same. Yes it's a flintlock, Is it reliable, some argue yes some argue No. does it have all the same parts as a Chambers or other quality lock. For the most part yes.

If you take it for what it is and do not expect a finner quality product it can function as a stepping stone into finer products.

Like I told the OP, just don't judge all flintlocks on the Traditions. Same as beer, don't judge all beer on domestic beer.

I do agree that some people are scared away from flintlocks because of their experiences with lower quality locks. but for Many the option of waiting and saving to get a better one may not happen. And we loose them from our sport anyways.

For some its hard to save and wait for something you have no experience with based on strangers opinion. A flintlock will hook you or not but until you take the bait you can't get hooked. Granted better bait catches more fish but so does the lowly dough ball.
:v

 

[Flintlock_bob]

I have one I built from a kit years ago. The lock was badly out of time, unusable so I sent it back. Traditions replaced it with a much nicer one that has a fly for a set trigger. That lock has been very reliable but I would be suspect of the original.

 

[Black Hand]

Longevity isn't a reliable indicator of quality. Take domestic American beers as an example....

I agree with you 100%, and in this instance its exactly the same thing!

Domestic American beer is what it is. Does it taste good, Some argue yes other argue No. Will it get you drunk in enough quantity, Some argue yes other argue no. Is it brewed in the same manner as import and craft beer.

The Traditions Flintlock is the same. Yes it's a flintlock, Is it reliable, some argue yes some argue No. does it have all the same parts as a Chambers or other quality lock. For the most part yes.

If you take it for what it is and do not expect a finer quality product it can function as a stepping stone into finer products.

Like I told the OP, just don't judge all flintlocks on the Traditions. Same as beer, don't judge all beer on domestic beer.

I do agree that some people are scared away from flintlocks because of their experiences with lower quality locks. but for Many the option of waiting and saving to get a better one may not happen. And we loose them from our sport anyways.

For some its hard to save and wait for something you have no experience with based on strangers opinion. A flintlock will hook you or not but until you take the bait you can't get hooked. Granted better bait catches more fish but so does the lowly dough ball.
:v

I agree. But...drink enough cheap beer, and you will be drunk. Shoot a cheap flintlock that fires 4 out of 10 times, you'll be disappointed and there won't be enough cheap beer for you to forget the experience for longer than an evening. When the drunk wears off, the unreliable gun will still be there to disappoint you another day.

If the gun doesn't work as expected, there is another person (and all the friends to which they will complain loudly and often) that we have lost. I am convinced that poor quality production flintlocks are the reason why we don't have more flint shooters and have even more people convinced that flintlocks "don't work", "are unreliable", "can't be used in all weather", "are manure", etc...

 

[rich pierce]

I'm aware of no half-stock flintlocks other than the English sporting rifles and the Harper's Ferry Model 1803.

The Rocky Mtn plains rifles were almost all half-stocked.

I’d estimate that maybe 20% of rifles that went west during the fur trade era were half stocked. Maybe less. None of the common trade rifles were half stocked. The Lancaster pattern, the scroll guard, the Henry, the Wheeler, and models by Derringer and Tyron were full stocked. At least 30% of J&S Hawken rifles were full stocked, and darn few of either half or full stocked Hawkens were flintlocks. More than half of Lehman rifles were full stocked. Plus, next to all the rifles taken from home were full stocked.

The modern “sort of copies” flintlock half stock rifles are meeting demand, and are not based on surviving half stock flintlock plains or mountain rifles.

 

[tenngun]

There was an evolution to half stocks starting about 1790 in Europe. It was slow to catch on. The big boom of half stock rifles was not until the 1850s. Even then full stocks would continue to be popularity. Even our military arms remains nearly full stock till after the Second World War. Hawken rifles were fifty cents cheaper in full stock.
Full stock percussion rifles were still being carried out west in the 1870s.

 

[timothy prouty]

If you do go with a Flintlock you gotta drill the touch hole to 1/16 and use fff for the main charge and the pan

 

[mooman76]

If you do go with a Flintlock you gotta drill the touch hole to 1/16 and use fff for the main charge and the pan

Gotta?

 

[Wes/Tex]

You don't 'gotta' but they're both good ideas. :wink:

 

[Gene L]

There was an evolution to half stocks starting about 1790 in Europe. It was slow to catch on. The big boom of half stock rifles was not until the 1850s. Even then full stocks would continue to be popularity. Even our military arms remains nearly full stock till after the Second World War. Hawken rifles were fifty cents cheaper in full stock.
Full stock percussion rifles were still being carried out west in the 1870s.

I wonder why the half-stock rifles cost more and I wonder if it's because the extra finish of the barrels. I saw a video on early American fullstock rifles where only the outside barrels were filed to dimensions. It was Gunmakers of Williamsburg, IIRC. Only the visible parts of the barrel were finished above the stock. Makes sense.

 

[Coot]

I think that the work to fabricate & attach the rib under the barrel was a factor in the cost of a half-stock. More steps & parts than a full-stock.

 

[PhilRich]

This article indicates the Great Plains Rifle is a decent replica of what was used out west.
https://truewestmagazine.com/power-on-the-plains/

 

[Black Hand]

This article indicates the Great Plains Rifle is a decent replica of what was used out west.
https://truewestmagazine.com/power-on-the-plains/[/quote]
Random magazine that received advertising dollars vs. historical evidence. I know which way I'm leaning....

 

[rich pierce]

This article indicates the Great Plains Rifle is a decent replica of what was used out west.
https://truewestmagazine.com/power-on-the-plains/[/quote]

Ahh it roughy resembles Hawken half stock percussion rifles which were famous but relatively rare, sort of like Cadillac Escalades in your neighborhood, and the flint option resembles nothing that went west. There just were not any/many flint halfstock rifles made anywhere outside of New England.

The flint version is a fine factory rifle. Just not a representation of anything that went west. It will pass at Rondy. Folks don’t nit pick that much.

 

[Zonie]

A few years ago, one of our members posted a photo of a Lyman Great Plains Rifle and a real Hawken rifle.

The images were both in the same picture so one could easily compare them.

Except for the slight "perch belly" shape on the bottom of the GPR's stock, the two guns look almost exactly alike.

IMO, the GPR is close enough for me. Especially after the perch belly is sanded off so the bottom of the stock is close to a straight line.

 

[54ball]

Irony of Ironies....

Look close at the rifle the tree guy is holding. :hmm:

That my friend is battered and repaired Pa style Fullstock.
Note the pipes....
Fullstock style pipes pinned under the barrel.
No under rib...
Wacky wrist reapair that obscures combline...likely a Leman? Maybe even a Dickert!
Note the Dickert Style Daisy Head Patchbox.

Likely that was originally a Fullstock , that was broken or cut off at the entry. The Fullstock pipes were used with no under rib.

 

[54ball]

I really have no problem with a flint halfstock as long as it is true to type. A GPR and Half stock Hawkens are percussion Era era rifles
There are a few halfstock flint Longrifles. Small (gunsmith name) rifles out of Indiana....Some Pa Rifles and some Southern rifles were made in halfstock.
I do have some info on a Alabama made rifle in halfstock and large bore made for....out west. It was found in Washington.
But....
These are case by case examples. Most trade rifles were Fullstock.....In the flint era.

 

[Wes/Tex]

This version is a bit clearer though not quite as greatly enlarged. may not be cut down, but certainly eastern built.
https://22658-presscdn-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/galen-clark.jpg

 

[droptine55]

have a friend who has been shooting a Traditions Kentucky, for about 15 years now, and has done virtually nothing to his lock, other than keep it clean, and has no problems with it. as far as accuracy, he has won a number of matches with it.

 

[Hermanoshawken]

Now Ardesa (which makes for Traditions) makes a pretty good Flint lock, similar to the small Siler, with a very strong mainspring and a wide and well tempered frizzen. It is the lock that they put in the Pennsylvania rifle and that it can also be put to the Kentucky, in addition it takes briddel and fly can be left almost to the hair the trigger. All you have to do is take some strength from the frizzen spring. A greeting from Spain and good 2018.