Total BP "newbie" needs a little advise on shooting new Whitworth

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Marine Sniper

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Ok, before I get into paper patching- what will "work" in the meantime? At first all I am looking to do is have a little fun and hope for some decent accuracy?
 

Woodnbow

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If using an unpatched bullet, yes, you’ll need some sort of black powder friendly lube. You might look into No Excuses bullets, they are pre lubed and sized and not exorbitantly priced. They have a 460 grain bullet which might work for your initial dip into the deep end of the pool. Approach this sport in a similar methodical manner to the experience you already have with powder burners and you’ll be fine.

There are other sources for these types of bullets, Dixie Gun Works, Track of the Wolf and others.
 

fourbore

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I asked a casual friend why he used 777 in his muzzle loader. He said it was cleaner than Pyrodex. I said, no, I mean why dont you use real black powder. it is easy to clean and less corrosive. He said in so many words: Nobody shoots black powder. He refused to even try it? It is too bad. There are special storage requirement for sellers and I think with the reduced demand fewer dealers want the hassle.

This Whitworth thread has been educational. Hex bullets! I had no idea. I wonder if the OP knew that? It seems a bit much to me. Now I am curious, are there some good alternatives for shooting heavy bullets a long ways? In this gun or using another gun?
 

pchwcf50110

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I own two Whitworth repro's. First off, since you're just starting forget hex bullets or paper patching. Measure your rifle's bore size. Should be anywhere between .449"-.451". Once you know what size you need you can buy/cast bullets with the correct fit or size bullets to the correct fit. Easiest way to start is to use flat base round grease groove bullets. A .50 caliber wool over the powder wad fills the hex bore and are easy to procure. I prefer Swiss or Olde Eynsford 1.5F powder but regular Goex 2F is fine. I would only use 3F for lighter charges with lighter bullets. Also as far as nipples you don't need a platinum lined one right now. You can use musket caps or #11 with a different nipple. If using musket caps I would install a flash cup to keep your wood stock from being marred. I have been testing Track of the Wolf's new hardened 416 stainless and carbon steel nipples in both musket and #11 configuration in my Whitworths since last summer with good results.
 
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Woodnbow

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I asked a casual friend why he used 777 in his muzzle loader. He said it was cleaner than Pyrodex. I said, no, I mean why dont you use real black powder. it is easy to clean and less corrosive. He said in so many words: Nobody shoots black powder. He refused to even try it? It is too bad. There are special storage requirement for sellers and I think with the reduced demand fewer dealers want the hassle.

This Whitworth thread has been educational. Hex bullets! I had no idea. I wonder if the OP knew that? It seems a bit much to me. Now I am curious, are there some good alternatives for shooting heavy bullets a long ways? In this gun or using another gun?
The Parker Hale Volunteer is another long range .45 Caliber sniper rifle, as are certain Rigby rifles, Gibbs, Tryon, Mortimer and others now manufactured by Pedersoli, all of which use conventional rifling,
 

52Bore

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MS: Buffalo Arms sells round bullets, contact them for a box, I’d recommend pure lead as we’ve had great success with them at Oak Ridge. That round bullet has a lot of upsetting to do in the Hex.
If you going with a flat base bullet - nearly any 450-500gr bullet will work starting out. Lyman 451114 comes to mind. I also recall, Pedersoli sells hex wads that are very thick - which will help seal the base of the round GG (Grease Groove) bullet.
Get something and go have some fun and shoot.
 

Woodnbow

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For anyone else working with bullets and heavier charges, I found this on another forum. “Inside track tip on nipple insert for any Whitworth.
Get some Inconel 600 weld rod and weld one of your stainless steel nipples shut on the receiving end.
Surface flat on a lathe and drill the hole needed,never look back.

Inconel weld rod can be had at any reputable weld house and is applied with a TIG welder.”

I haven’t tried this but a good friend is a very talented welder and I’m going to give him a couple nipples to weld up and then I’ll drill them with cobalt bits.
 

fleener

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Black powder will have a little more mess with cleaning then the fake powders. If you are into accuracy, there is not a choice other then real black powder IMO. I have never seen a serious long range ML shooter use anything other then real black powder. 500 yards is mid range in this game. I am a long range ML shooter, but I have zero experience with a Whitworth or the hex bullets. The rifles I shoot have the traditional rifling and I shoot both grease grove and paper patch bullets.

Take the advice of those that have a rifle like this and see where it leads you. These rifles can be a little be more picky, what works for one might not work for another.

Do get a new nipple. I have several of the PT lined nipples.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

Fleener
 

Zonie

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For anyone else working with bullets and heavier charges, I found this on another forum. “Inside track tip on nipple insert for any Whitworth.
Get some Inconel 600 weld rod and weld one of your stainless steel nipples shut on the receiving end.
Surface flat on a lathe and drill the hole needed,never look back.

Inconel weld rod can be had at any reputable weld house and is applied with a TIG welder.”

I haven’t tried this but a good friend is a very talented welder and I’m going to give him a couple nipples to weld up and then I’ll drill them with cobalt bits.
Inconel 600 isn't usually available in the form of a welding wire. Inconel 625 is readily available but the 600 series of Inconel are all very soft and ductile. In other words, it will be deformed by the impact of the hammer on the percussion cap.

Inconel 718 has a higher hardness but to get this condition requires extensive heat treatment at very high temperatures as shown in this description:

  • Solution anneal at 1900-1950°F followed by rapid cooling, usually in water, plus precipitation hardening at 1400°F for 10 hours, furnace cool to 1200°F, hold at 1200°F for a total aging time of 20 hours, followed by air cooling.
Hastelloy X is another commonly available welding material but like the 600 series Inconels, it is rather soft and ductile.

All of these high temperature materials are expensive but if your going to experiment with them, I sure would like to know how things worked out for you.
 

Woodnbow

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Inconel 600 isn't usually available in the form of a welding wire. Inconel 625 is readily available but the 600 series of Inconel are all very soft and ductile. In other words, it will be deformed by the impact of the hammer on the percussion cap.

Inconel 718 has a higher hardness but to get this condition requires extensive heat treatment at very high temperatures as shown in this description:

  • Solution anneal at 1900-1950°F followed by rapid cooling, usually in water, plus precipitation hardening at 1400°F for 10 hours, furnace cool to 1200°F, hold at 1200°F for a total aging time of 20 hours, followed by air cooling.
Hastelloy X is another commonly available welding material but like the 600 series Inconels, it is rather soft and ductile.

All of these high temperature materials are expensive but if your going to experiment with them, I sure would like to know how things worked out for you.
Thanks for the information Zonie, my impression was that the welder would close to orifice on the thread end of the nipple leaving the cone as it was for the purpose of gaining the heat resistance of the inconel material at the orifice only. I have not spoken with my buddy about the project so availability of the material hasn’t even appeared on the radar. He may tell me to buy platinum lined nipples...
 

TFoley

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The Polisar Brothers, Joe and Steve, of Albuquerque NM, make a swaged flat-base hexagonal bullet of around 530gr that shoots exceptionally well in the Parker-Hale Whitworth. That is, if what you have is the REAL Parker-Hale Whitworth rifle, and not a post 14,000 serial numbered look-alike. Their bullet is available with and without the patching.

Their recommended load is 80gr of 2Fg over a couple of 'shirt-cardboard packaging' wads, pushed down with the bullet with 40# pressure. With that load, and their cleaning/patching regime followed exactly, I was able to shoot a five shot group at 100m that measured a tad over 1.5", with four bullets in one raggedy hole.

If you can't locate the Polisars through 'Muzzle Blasts', please feel free to PM me and I'll put you in touch.
 

Marine Sniper

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This is the rifle I bought:
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/9489/category_id/618/category_chain/618/product_name/PR3256+WHITWORTH+RIFLE

I also bought 100 of these projectiles:
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/1227/category_id/336/category_chain/578,349,336/product_name/BT0904+WHITWORTH+BULLETS

I have not bought any powder yet- but did buy these caps:
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8411/category_id/339/product_name/IA0604+CCI+U.S.+MUSKET+CAPS+(100)++-+<font+color+=+red>+HAZMAT+FEE+APPLIES<font>

I have tried to find the contact info for Polisar brothers- but have had no luck. I would love to shoot their bullets.

Dumb question- but what is the best "tube" for getting the powder down the barrel? lol....I am so new at this.

I really appreciate the help I am getting. Looking forward to shooting this rifle.
 

TFoley

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'I have tried to find the contact info for Polisar brothers- but have had no luck. I would love to shoot their bullets.'

That's because they are not a company, they are a couple of enthusiasts who do this kind of thing for like-minded people.

I wrote - 'If you can't locate the Polisars through 'Muzzle Blasts', please feel free to PM me and I'll put you in touch.'

Not heard a word from you, Sir.

BTW, THE caps to buy are made by Dynamit-Nobel RWS. Mind you, we shoot them because CCI musket caps don't appear on the shelves here in Europe. I've shot a tin of 50-y/o RWS caps with total satisfaction and nary a futz. You might also note that there is a warning about the fragility of the CCI caps at the bottom of the page you put up.
 

Grenadier1758

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Best tube to drop powder down the barrel. I use the barrel. Some people use a drop tube, which is essentially a copper tube that fits down the barrel and it flared to act as a funnel at the muzzle. There is a belief that since the drop tube is clean and dry the powder falls directly to the breech and doesn't get caught up in the fouling or get weakened by absorbing the liquid left in the barrel after swabbing between shots. Most of us can't detect any difference.
 

fleener

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I have quit using a drop tube, other then a piece about 4 inches long with a small plastic funnel attached. I use it more for the funnel.

Fleener
 

Robby

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I have never used a drop tube in a muzzleloader but for the type of shooting you plan, it would make sense. I would assume the reason would be the same as for using the tube when reloading black powder cartridges, and that is to get a consistent stack of powder that will compress in density the same every time the bullet is seated, creating the same even burn rate every shot. Seating the bullet as exactly the same every time, as you can, is important. A lot of it is up to you the shooter and how disciplined and meticulous you choose to be. Good luck!!!!!!
Robby
 
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