To little powder in pan???

[pichou]

All very true... what works is what to do! :haha:

But I wonder how fast the flints are wearing? Might be worthwhile to tune the lock and try a few different size flints?

Saving powder should be the last consideration. Too much powder can cause a delay, and in humid weather cause a lot of fouling. And since fowling and humidity go together, does fowling = fouling? Sorry, bad joke. :shake:

But heavy fowling is as bad as a dull flint. So less priming would be better in humid weather, provided that the gun goes off at all... the ultimate consideration. :grin:

 

[roundball]

"...less priming would be better in humid weather..."

Fouling only occurs after firing...and routinely wiping off the frizzen/flint/pan after every shot when hunting eliminates any concerns in that area regardless of the amount of prime used...I use the same amount year round in the full range of temperature and humidity conditions, never had a problem...

 

[4deer]

But I wonder how fast the flints are wearing? Might be worthwhile to tune the lock and try a few different size flints?

Originally my gun came with some agated flint, which I partially wore out. Then I think I made the wear worse when I tried napping it with an old deer antler, because it was hardly making any spark by then. Finally I realized that the flint was double sided so I flipped it around, which made it spark and sizzle real good. About that time I was in a gunshop and I bought one English flint, which I promptly put in my gun when I got home. Since then I think that I have fired maybe 30+ times with it. The flint shows wear, but I am still happy with how it is sparking for now. Some day I want to order some Tom Fuller flint from trackofthewolf.com; I hear that is good flint.

I am not really sure how I would tune up my lock. The other night I had the main spring off and the frizzen too, but that is about as far as I have ever gone. I did try firing the lock with no spring tension on the frizzen and still got decent spark; I have heard that means something concerning how to modify a lock, but I forget exactly what. The my gun is a CVA Trophy Hunter III if anyone knows anything about that lock.

 

[pichou]

In hunting of course, there is fouling after... at the range it can build up, but I have to admit I was thinking of reenacting when I said that. Then you can get so much fouling after 6 or 8 rounds that the gun will start to misfire, when it's super humid. It's usually pretty cold here during hunting season.

Knock on wood (knock knock) I have never had a misfire hunting.

:v

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I think they originaly used softened deer bladders for this :hmm:

Twisted 1in66, is that Lancaster doing well for you?

Hey tg,

Are you kidding?? That Early Lancaster you built is doing great! She is a super reliable rifle and I always get compliments on her wherever I go. She's one of the prettiest I've ever seen and much lighter in the hand than any rifle I've handled. I think that has a lot to do with the time you spent getting that forearm so slender. I am very happy to have her and my wife didn't even object to me hanging her on the wall in the main room of our house.

She is a work of art and a pleasure to use. Can't tell you how happy I am that you decided to let her go, my friend. Doubt that I ever will.

Twisted_1in66 :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[Stumpkiller]

"When you are hunting, you can't afford to have a misfire. Put at least 1/2 the pan full of priming powder, and you won't regret it."

Rarely does a univeral answer cover all bases use the gun in a woods walk and try different amounts in the pan, play around tipping the gun and tapping the lock with the heal of yopur hand and after while you can turn the gun upside down, shake it up,bring it back to your carry position, tip and tap and you will know where your powder is without having to look, you may need 1/2 1/4 1/3 your gun will tell you if you let it, that is the nice thing about flintlocks very often they will let you know what is needed if you know how to ask.

I agree. Every flintlock has its own preferences. Depends on vent-hole size, height above the pan edge, depth of pan, lunar phase, how you hold your tongue, etc.

I use more than 1/2 full for my rifle.

 

[Rollover Jack]

Mr. Cat...

One of the greatest benefits of this Forum is the quantity of advice freely given out. :thumbsup:

No one will ever be able to accuse me of having had an original thought in my life, so when I glean several opinions here it gives me things to try for myself. Then I stick with those that work best for my gun.

Thanks, All... :2

 

[tg]

"She is a work of art and a pleasure to use. Can't tell you how happy I am that you decided to let her go, my friend. Doubt that I ever will."

Glad to hear she is appreciated and gets used, hope you have a very long and comfortable relationship :wink: how much powder do you find works the best with that Queen Ann lock, if I recall I just put a thin layer across the bottom,and when hunting I would tap it now and then in a manner that I knew the vent would be clear should I need to shoot, those pans are quite shallow

 

[tg]

"A new flint should throw sparks to just forward of the center of the pan. Then as the flint wears down, the sparks will move first to the center of the pan, and then to the back of the pan. Whey they start missing the pan is when you definitely need to move that flint. With experience, you will just look at the flint in the jaws, in relation to the face of your frizzen and KNOW when its time to move the flint forward."

This is an interesting theory but I have a problem with the ability of the human eye to trace the fast falling sparks and accurately determining where they fall, I tried it and had a friend try it this morning and with a pan 1/2" wide give or take and the sparks jumping around very fast I found it impossible to say they were hitting the front or rear of the pan, this really needs to be tested with the hightech photography that Plecth (sp) is into before the theory could be given much merit. I tried to follow it geometricaly with scale drawings and this failed to show anything that would indicate such a movement, but the photography would remove any doubt one way or the other.I have used a short flint at times and when rying to shoot the lock locks up as the thumbscrew hits the frizzen about the same time the flint starts to move it back and every thing jambs up, this is one for the science guy to work out.

 

[roundball]

"A new flint should throw sparks to just forward of the center of the pan. Then as the flint wears down, the sparks will move first to the center of the pan, and then to the back of the pan. Whey they start missing the pan is when you definitely need to move that flint."

This is an interesting theory but I have a problem with the ability of the human eye to trace the fast falling sparks and accurately determining where they fall

You're not supposed to question it TG, he said it so you're just supposed to accept it.


However, this latest theory is too good to pass up...even if it was possible for the human eye to make these observations, one major flaw in the practicality of such a theory would be with the enormous amount of additional flint usage as the very critical transition area thresholds were monitored.
ie: the boundary line that the sparks cross when they move from the front into the middle of the pan...then the boundary line they cross when moving from the middle to the rear of the pan...then from the rear of the pan to behind the pan, etc, etc, etc.

Monitoring these transition boundaries so a shooter would know when one was about to be crossed in order to stop and reposition the flint at just the right time would require constant periodic dry firing of the lock a few times to see where the sparks were falling.
ie: you'd take a couple shots at a target, then dry fire a few times to see where the sparks were falling (yes, I know, the human eye can't detect this but bear with me) then take a couple more shots, then dry fire some more...take a couple more shots, then dry fire some more...repeat, repeat...then stop and reposition the flint.
Then start the cycle all over again on the middle of the pan???????
Then on the rear of the pan??????

Actual useful Flint life would be cut to about 10% of normal and the length of a range session would double or triple, right up until the range officer got tired of all the unconventional, potentially unsafe fiddling around with a ML on the firing line and put an end to it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Did you do your " test " in a dark room after giving your eyes time to dilate so you could see clearly?

I can assure you that if your sparks were falling behind the pan because your flint is too short, you will see it, and you will notice it.

As for the rest, maybe your eyes aren' t up to the task. I don't know. No one I know has had any problem seeing the movement of the sparks in the pan over the course of 40 strikes. No one I know has any trouble seeing the sparks from a new flint hitting forward of center when the flint is positioned properly in the jaws of the cock.

Without seeing what you are doing, I can't imagine why you are having these problems. I was shown this test by my late friend, L. Don Latter, back in about 1978. Since then I have showed it to hundreds of shooters, both at my club and at demonstrations, to students in my Hunter safety classes, to friends, and to other hunters I meet in the field deer hunting who want to learn how I get my flintlock to work right. Other flintlock shooters have in turn shown dozens of other people how to set the flint properly by watching where the sparks fall in the pan. My Gunmaker, Craig Witte, who has been making guns for about 40 years, and learned from his father, shows people the same " test" to demonstrate how to determine when a flint needs to be moved forward in the jaws, or changed, if its too short for that "fix".


If I thought I was informing members of something Radical, or " NEW", Tg, I would have asked your permission first! :rotf: :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Now who is making stuff up??? Where is YOUR data that flint life is reduced by 10%??? Why not 9% Or 12%???

Lets get a poll to find out what members have tested your " THEORIES" Roundball, and whether any of them agree with your figures!

Blather on as usual, Roundball. I am sure your fan loves to hear it.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

When I want to evaluate sparks I use a camera. This can be done with about any digital. These are in the order they were taken - the first 3 with flash and the last in the dark lit only by sparks.

I don't look for sparks in the front or back half of the pan. I want the whole pan covered.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[roundball]

Pletch, nothing beats logic, hands on experience, facts.....and excellent photos!
:hatsoff:


OK, so I guess that wraps up the need for any further discussion about recommendations that shooters should monitor their "spark fall" at three different places in their pans and adjust their flint accordingly as each threshold is crossed.

 

[tg]

I would agree that a full pan of sparks is a good deal that is what it looks like to me when they fall, they don't fall ina line center fore or aft just a bunch of sparks hitting all over the pan, can you capyure this concept of the sparks landing to far fore or aft by varying the flint position with your camera? the flint position is self limiting to some degree, it can only go foreward to the point of touching the frizzen and back to the point that the thumbscrew will likely hit first and stop the process, if you are interested and have some time it would be interesting tose what the camera shows.

"If I thought I was informing members of something Radical, or " NEW", Tg, I would have asked your permission first!"

Paul, you would be funny if you weren't so pathetic, I truely believe that your entire knowledge of MLs and how they work could easily be contained within a common sewing thimble, and don't take this post as hostile it is in sympathy.

 

[paulvallandigham]

[
Paul, you would be funny if you weren't so pathetic, I truely believe that your entire knowledge of MLs and how they work could easily be contained within a common sewing thimble, and don't take this post as hostile it is in sympathy.[/quote]


Tg: This the kind of personal attack that just should not appear on this forum. I don't give a rats behind if you like me or not. I am not particularly fond of you. I hope you and Roundball are very happy together.

If you look at pletch's photos, particularly those taken in the dark, its quite clear that the majority of the sparks are landing forward of center in the pan. The human eye is actually more discerning that a piece of film exposed to multiple movements over a period of time. The sparks that seem to be hitting towards the back obviously hit the pan before the flint and the frizzen, finished their forward movement. That is why they are bouncing out to the side of the lock and not straight up as most of the others are.

I wish you and you buddy all the best. Far be it for me to do anything that might inform you that something else is going on, or that there are better ways to shoot flintlocks. Please, just keep doing it your old way. No one will notice.

 

[tg]

I guess you can see what you want in the photos, like everything else, and I whole heartedly agree that there are things that do not belong on this forum, and clean your own backyard before you get to upset about personal attacks.

 

[FishDFly]

They can argue all they want about stuff and things, your pictures are the best screen savers that I have seen.

Thanks

RDE

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Tg--I have come to favor having my sparks land at a position approximately 57.62% to the rear of the center of the pan, as viewed from directly above by a girl with kaleidoscope eyes. There is a simple formula that can be used to calculate the correct flint position required for this to take place. To wit:
AoD x PiS + 2ITL-WNYATO=57.62% where AoD is Angle of the Dangle, PiS is Pie in the Sky, 2ITL is Ivory Tower Lunacy multiplied by a factor of 2 and WNYATO is Whatever Number You Are Thinking Of. Follow this simple yet ingenious formula and watch the sparks fly! :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

That sounds about as reasonable as anything else I have heard today :hmm: