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Tips for Offhand shooting

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Melnic

40 Cal.
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I'm looking for some tips for offhand muzzleloader shooting.
I've spent some time with centerfire and 22 offhand shooting at 25 yards, but not 50 yards like I want to do with the muzzleloader. And not any real training. The Lyman peep sight gives me a great sight picture, but my challenge is holding steady. These past 2 days I've tried a couple changes with my forehand, open palm, closed palm and 2 fingers (stock and trigger guard). I had best luck with 2 fingers and elbow on my ribs. Most all my shots were at least on paper (11 of 12) with an average of about a 6 on a B-16 target. I think I can improve on this over time but looking for advice.
Thx.
 
A proper stance, upper body strength, A gun with just the right balance. What I mean by this is not so light in the front that you have trouble holding it steady, just enough heft out there to lay on the hand steady without fatiguing your hand, shoulder and arm. A longer barrel can give a better sight radius but may be too front heavy to hold on target.
 
Definitely practice, practice, practice. One of the top offhand shooters of the '70s, Chuck Blender, had blacksmiths arms. He dry fired hundreds of times daily and worked with weights. On the primitive side the top offhand shooter, likewise had muscular arms and practiced and worked out daily. If yer rifle is light you can put in a brass ramrod and another brass rod in the barrel for your dry firing and strength building. If you are serious about it, do it with an obsession and do it now. I am now at a point where my shoulders are torn up and holding even a light rifle is very difficult. Enjoy while you can. My shooting days may be over. :(
 
:thumbsup:

Like almost every sport, conditioning is key. And, like almost every other sport, balance is key. It starts with your stance, and goes upwards from there. Bones don't fatigue like muscles do, so use them for support as much as you can, and try to minimize muscles for support as much as you can in finding your NPA.

If you go to www.targettalk.com and read a while that will give you a lot better insight in to a whole host of related topics than what is usually discussed at the depth it is discussed on this forum.
 
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I grew up shooting offhand with my shoulders somewhat aligned with the target (i.e. I'm right handed. The gun would be somewhat across my body with about 6 to 8 inches of space between the gun and my left shoulder and my head turned to the left. I did not do well until I learned to face the target with my toes pointed toward the target and my knees slightly bent.

It took a bit of concentration to make myself face the target that way, but it really improved my offhand shooting.

I don't know if YouTube links work here, but here's a good tutorial. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S360Glcxgc4

Prove it to yourself. Mount your gun with your head turned. Sight in on a target for a count of five and see how steady you hold. Then try toes pointed toward the target and knees bent and see how steady you hold. It will seem awkward at first and it may not be for you. But it worked for me.
 
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If you said what rifle & it's weight I miss it.

That would tell a lot.

I find a lot of folks do too much with there weaker arm. On a mid weight to light rifle, when your ready to shoot, you should be able to let the weak arm drop with no (or vary slight) muzzle drop. If not then IMHO you are asking a lotof the weaker arm. It has to hold all that weight & fine tune.

As a kid my dad would have us shooting 22s with our left hand flat beneath the stock. From time to time he would pull our left arm down. If the rifle didn't move when your hand dropped from under it. :thumbsup:
 
I wrote this some time back for an offhand shooting contest using 3 x 5 cards as targets. Sorry that the images don't copy.

Sumpy's School of Offhandedness

Daniel Webster was a fly-fisherman, not a rifle shooter, as his definitions for "offhand" are contradictory. His dictionary lists "without pre-meditation or preparation" as one choice, and "without rest or support" as the other. I maintain that if you don't prepare for an offhand shot, you won't be any good at them when you need it. Shooting from a benchrest only trains your mind and body to be able to shoot well from a benchrest. Only the eyes and trigger hand have any common tasks between a shot from offhand vs. from a bench. Certainly the eyes and trigger hand have critical jobs, but the rest of your body does as well. I hope to make you aware of what needs to come together to be consistent and accurate in your offhand shooting.

As I'm writing this specifically to help you keep three shots on a 3" X 5" card at 50 yards, I'll tell you the first thing you need to do is get that card so you can see it. After drawing the lines through the diagonals with a ball point pen to locate the center, forget about them. If you can see them at 50 yards I hate you. From now on they're just to help in the final scoring. I zero my rifles so that the balls strike 2" high at 50 yards. This gives me a point blank range of about 100 yards on whitetail, but that's not important now. It does mean I have to establish an aiming point 2" below the where the pen lines cross in the center of the card. I use a 3-3/4" diagonal black diamond with a white center (a free download from www.USPALMA.com - the one called "2 Medium Diamonds" [note - use http://www.gamecalls.net/free_stuff/52_free_targets.html to download free targets now]) for load development and zeroing in because I find it an easy target to aim at. Unfortunately, when I put this over the card it became very difficult to score, as the aiming face took the hit and the "skid marks" of the ball, leaving the card behind torn and without well defined edges to the holes. What you need is a way to produce contrast behind the card so you can focus on it as a target. Claude presented a solution of affixing the card in the center of a 6" (or larger) circular bull's-eye target (also downloadable free at USPALMA - See Figure 1). This helps increase the contrast and make the card stand out. But this means you can not use the bottom of the card as an aiming point unless you adjust your sights. You can either do your best to estimate how far your sights must intrude into the white of the card for a center shot, or stick a 1" target plaster (or piece of black masking or vinyl tape) at the proper spot on the target based on your sighting targets. Be warned that if you are zeroed at 50 yards, you'll be beck to the problem of having the tape mess up the holes, or even tear the card when being removed. If you hit it, I recommend you leave it as long as the center of the "X" is still visible. If the other two shots tore the "X" out, send it in tape & all, Tiger! You could also use an orange plaster and draw the lines over it.


Figure 1


You ran a lube dampened patch down the barrel to prep it and then assembled a load, and are all primed or capped. You step up to the line, or your 50 yard stake. Now what? First you must establish a solid platform to support the gun. The shot begins at your hips. "He's knutz" you're telling yourself. Think on this: when you're standing for an offhand shot, you have to be able to control your body's tendency to sway (it's there, even when you're sober). Being the amazing, bipedal creature that you are, your brain has developed a stream of commands to keep you from falling over. It is sending constant input to your feet, ankles, knees, and back muscles based on visual and inner-ear cues. Without getting into the metaphysical aspects of it, I can tell you that your body, like any car, boat or airplane, has a center-of-gravity. Right in there behind your belly-button somewhere. What you need to do is get your feet and legs well set under that point. The closest flexible joints to that central spot are your hips (in Karate, that famous board breaking punch is actually thrown by starting with a hip swing). The biggest muscles in your body are from the hips up, and down, and in most situations it is best to use the biggest muscles first. We'll assume you are right handed for all examples. Stand with your left side facing the target. Set your feet angled about 45º from each other and the heels about as far apart as your outside shoulder span. Your right foot should be about perpendicular to the target and the toes of your left foot pointing somewhere to the right of the target. The legs, back and neck should be straight, but not rigidly locked. Your head upright and centered right over your navel. I'm assuming you're shooting a moderately loaded medium or small bore rifle, so you won't be needing to bend your left knee and lean forward into the recoil to keep from toppling backwards. Your stance has to be open enough that you can root the butt plate solidly in the pocket between your arm and collar-bone. (A closed stance is when the toes of both feet are in line with the target: º \=O=/ ). A good way to set yourself into position is to stand in the closed stance, and then move your left foot back half a foot. Swivel at the hips a bit to re-center your hips and shoulders over your feet and you're ready to mount the rifle.

Look at the target and bring the rifle up and then pull the butt plate back into the shoulder pocket with your right hand. The left hand supports the fore end and adjusts for aim. The position of your left hand is determined by barrel length, stock geometry and your arm shape. Your elbow should be as close to directly below the rifle as you can get it without tensing your back and upper arm muscles. Right elbow should be held out horizontal to the ground; again without fighting clothing or muscles.

Both eyes open, one eye closed? That is up to you. I use both eyes open for all hunting shots and most target shooting. I found with the taped card described above I did better with one eye closed. I think it is easier for your brain to determine the center of the card, or a circular target, with both eyes open. Focus on the front sight. With your master eye (we'll assume it's your right). If you are left handed with a right master eye, or right handed with a left master eye: sucks to be you. You'll probably have to end up closing the eye on the opposite side of your nose from the gun. There are too many sight variations to describe here, but let's take a common blade front, rectangular notched rear as our example. The target should be aligned so that it appears to rest on the front sight (6:00 hold) or in the center of the target, front sight aligned in the notch so that the top of the front is level with the upper surface of the rear, an equal amount of light showing on either side of the front blade in the groove of the rear notch. I focus on the front sight, and at the final instant I shift my focus to the target. I think this is a "fault" caused by conditioning from hunting and traditional archery/bowhunting. I'm just blazing my full concentration on THE SPOT that I have chosen as my target. But we're not quite ready in this seminar to shoot, yet.

Breath control is perhaps the most mentioned and least understood of the shooting techniques. We've all been told: Take three deep breaths, let out half of the last one and then shoot." What happens then is that your body is agonizing for breath, your sights are oscillating in ever increasing arcs across the target, and you finally yank the trigger before gasping for sweet air. "7:00 in the four ring" says your spotter, loud enough so the whole line hears him.

So what's a better system? Properly done, breath control not only allows you the motionless moment for final sight alignment, but also calms your muscles and can even slow your pulse. All the little internal maintenance activities your body performs even when you'd like a little quiet. Tense muscles not only oscillate as they pull against each other to remain in equilibrium, but the blood coursing through them causes a bounce, which is more easily absorbed in a loose muscle.

Your breathing drill should begin as soon as you uncase your rifle. As you breathe in, imagine a coil spring in your belly, like the mainspring in an old pocket watch, winding tight. As you exhale, imagine that spring relaxing. In a short article like this, I can't begin to explain meditation and breathing techniques in any detail. Ask a vocalist or Karate instructor. The diaphragm is second only to the heart in keeping you alive, and you have a lot more voluntary control over it. Practice taking slow, deep breaths while trying to be conscious of that muscle raising and falling below your lungs. For those that don't know, when that muscle drops it is the vacuum created that draws air into your lungs. Your lungs have no muscles of their own. That's why a diaphragm puncture on a deer will drop it quickly even though the lungs may not be heavily damaged. It can't breathe. You know the feeling if you've ever taken a punch to the solar plexus that caused your diaphragm to spasm. Ideally, your mind and muscles should be as relaxed as possible, so that if you do flinch a bit, it will take an instant for the muscles to contract that much further, hopefully giving the ball a chance to be past the muzzle before it can be effected.

The Okinawans have a phrase for mental preparation, which I'll now misspell for you: "miso no kokora". Literally, this means "consciousness of bee paste", which is nonsense. But if you were an Okinawa school child centuries ago it would bring to mind the smoothing of the wax writing tablet in preparation of the next lesson. What we would describe as "clearing your mind." In Karate the mental illusion of imagining yourself smoothing out a sheet of wax is meant to help you clear your mind and focus on the present. At any moment we are thinking about work, problems at home, did the dog get his before being shut in with the new carpet, a million things. Imagining a tossing sea that gradually subsides to a calm one also works, as does imagining the face of a loved one or pet. But don't try recalling your version of Ol' Yeller's face or you may find the target will get misty and blurred.

In a hunting situation adrenaline will be pumping into your system, giving the body it's fight-or-flight boost to get you up that tree a bit faster when that bad ol' sabertooth tiger is on your heels, or to throw your rock farther and harder than the enemy throws his. With the rifle now doing all the hard work, you need to mentally counteract the hormonal rush and regain composure by clearing out all the clutter that this increase in mental clock-speed brings with it. The famous "pick a spot and focus on it" drilled into bowhunters applies in and to this situation. Another tip: if you are within 75 yards of a deer NEVER make eye contact with it. If you look at their face, chances are the deer will perceive you as a predator. They have some responses hardwired into their systems too. Once you've determined this is a target animal, look away and continue to observe them with peripheral vision, until the moment you put that front sight over it's heart. Keep you mind busy on choosing a shooting lane (if you're in cover) and the path the deer is taking. Whenever possible, make vertical slope and lateral movement corrections for moving game, or game above or below you, by leaning or twisting at the hips and not by twisting your arms or upper torso.

Now see how much easier it's going to be just shooting at a blind and motionless 3" X 5" card?

The final facets are trigger control and follow through. You've got your breathing down, you're calm and focused. The gun is loaded and at your shoulder. Muzzle pointed downrange and the hammer eased back into full-cock. You have you feet placed and your weight is balanced between them. You take a breath and your left arm and shoulder move slightly to position the front sight. While letting out a bit of breath and then halting, you begin to gently squeeze the trigger. Some will tell you "The gun should surprise you when it goes off." Me, I assume every gun will go off if I were to pull the trigger. I think it is better to say that you should squeeze with slow, evenly applied pressure until the gun goes off. And then, and this is important, you should hold your position a full second before lowering the gun or finishing the release of your breath. Follow-through will prevent some fliers caused by jerking your head at the last moment. In a hunting situation, the movement may also give the animal a visual on a predator to run from, instead of just the bafflement of the sudden cloud of smoke and unpleasant sensation of being shot. Often they'll take a couple bounds and then slow to a trot, and even pause to look back, if you have remained motionless. You're doing these steps properly if you have a dud ignition and the gun doesn't "hop" off target when the hammer drops. If you have an assistant, let him prime and then hand you the gun; with the instructions to use a dead cap or leave the pan unprimed randomly at his whim. Back to breathing and trigger control work if the gun recoils without going "boom."

When sighting in, shoot at least three shots before adjusting your sights. You have to establish a group before you can move the center of the group with sight adjustment.

Good shooting
 
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I tuck my support arm elbow in and rest it on my beer gut (umm 6-pack yeah) by doing this I hold steadier on target.
 
What a great excuse to drink more Beer..!!!
"My gut ain't big enough to rest on..."
I LOVE IT..!! :bow:
Thanks for sharing.
 
Elbow on chest? Not! If only 'cause you can't get a good sight picture like that. Sorry. And it's not offhand. Try loading 2 chambers next to each other and one other, then spin the cylinder, cap all... Shoot six times. See if you flinch. Rinse. Repeat (till Coach Alden's high standards would be met).

Do not hold the gun up with your trigger finger. That finger is only for pulling straight back and not "dragging wood" either... Keep finger alongside trigger guard. Aim. Can you stay on target!?

So glad I've never seen Ol' Yeller or Bambi!
 
2_Tall said:
I tuck my support arm elbow in and rest it on my beer gut (umm 6-pack yeah) by doing this I hold steadier on target.

Since my shoulders went bad I do brace my elbow against my body. But, for ml offhand shooting I still think in terms of the old (original?) rules that prohibit shooting that way.
Strength and conditioning are required for 'off body' offhand shooting. Some of the best I have seen, you could do chin-ups on their barrel while they are sighting and not disturb them. :shocked2: Really. :wink:
 
On the breathing control thing.
when I was learning to shoot, I was told to take a deep breath let it out and hold. When you do this your heart will skip one beat.
do this as practice and learn to fire at that moment when your body is motionless
 
The elbow on the ribs sounds good. How you grip the stock is a personal thing I think. There is the longer lock time and that means a real effort on follow through, I would think that concentrating on a steady hold in the follow through might be the best area to concentrate on.
Muzzle Blasts magazine had a series of articles a few years ago on what the best shooters at Friendship did. I thought I would read a lot of technical stuff but actually, a lot of shooters were just regular guys that did a lot of shooting. no magic formulas.
 
Brian6396 said:
...take a deep breath let it out and hold. When you do this your heart will skip one beat.
That's true. And your motionless when your heart ships that beat! And did you know that if you melt Smurfs they turn to gold, and, if you want to keep your doctor you can keep your doctor and save $2,300 per family too?
 
thx for all the suggestions so far.
I have a hefty Lyman Great Plains in .54.
About 200 rounds through it after building it up this spring.
I'm 48, 5'7" and 170lbs. I play Ice hockey, but my arms are not bulked up by any means. This ML is heavy to hold. I have a used CVA hawken that I think is easier to hold steady but my load is not yet as accurate as the Lyman right now.
 
In general it would seem that there is some confusion between, "off hand," shooting and, "standing position," shooting. Two different things. Although not written with muzzle loaders in mind, the truth is still truth, I suggest reading, then re-reading, "The Art of The Rifle," by Col. Jeff Cooper, for a good breakdown of the various shooting positions.
 
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