Tips for casting round balls (modern equipment)?

[putodebabylon]

I've been attempting to cast my own round balls. I have a Lee Production Pot IV bottom pour and am using Lee molds. I tried casting some .490 balls yesterday. My problem is that they all seem to come out wrinkled. I have read that this is because the mold isn't hot enough. I try to rest the mold so that a corner of it is in the molten lead to heat it up, and then quickly cast a bunch until the balls come out good. The problem is that it seems to take forever until I get usuable balls, and even those aren't too pretty. I set my pot on 9 so that the lead glows red a little bit when it starts to get dark outside in an attempt to help with the heat. :shocked2: I cast for an hour and a half yesterday and kept 19 balls. Any tips?

 

[Maven]

There are a couple of things you can do, and one you should consider doing. The last mentioned is to consider buying a good lead thermometer (not expensive) and use it every time you cast as it will insure a consistent [furnace] temperature. As for the rest, (1) scrub the cavities and top surface of the Lee mold with dish soap and a toothbrush. Dry it thoroughly, and then make a few test casts, mostly to bring it up to operating temp. Re-lube it as per Lee's instructions. Then take a few wooden matches and deposit a layer of soot in each cavity (called "smoking" a mold). Try casting again. (2) If that doesn't improve things, purchase one of those egg-shaped Lyman casting ladles and use it. (I've been casting for 30 yrs. and have only had 1 mold which didn't cast perfectly using a ladle.) (3) You may want to add a 4" long pc. of 50-50 solder (~1/16" diameter) to a full pot to slightly lower surface tension of your Pb. (4) I generally cast Pb at 800 deg. F and get many more "keepers" than rejects. Since your melt is glowing, I don't think that's a problem. Indeed, you may need to lower the temp. (5) You may also need to flux your molten Pb to remove impurities and also to lower surface tension. (6) Lastly, although Al molds heat up quickly, they also cool off quickly, so you have to keep up a steady, if not rapid casting rhythm. Can't think of anything else at the moment, but I hope this helps.

 

[cynthialee]

I found that if I dip more of the mold than the corner (about a third of the mold) and let it sit in the lead until the lead just pours off the mold when tested it works better.
Which reminds me, now that the temps have fallen I should get back to the round ball casting project. (which is on hold until I get a grain scale)

 

[necchi]

Don't use the bottom pour,
Get a ladel and dip lead out of the top,,
Even the Lee ladel will hold enough for a dual cavity 490 cast.

 

[mooman76]

Good info here. I suspect you aren't casting fast enough. Even starting with a cold mould you should be up to speed much quicker. RBs are easy to cast compared to other things like conicals or regular bullets. Just cast away and don't worry about whats coming out and you should find you are dropping good RBs real quick. I find it best to hold the mould in the lead like Cynthialee says. I give it about a slow count to 20 for a single cavity and like 24 for a double and make sure the sprue plate is touching the lead melt to or if it isn't hot enough, it will cool down lead melt too quick.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There are a couple of things you can do, and one you should consider doing. The last mentioned is to consider buying a good lead thermometer (not expensive) and use it every time you cast as it will insure a consistent [furnace] temperature. As for the rest, (1) scrub the cavities and top surface of the Lee mold with dish soap and a toothbrush. Dry it thoroughly, and then make a few test casts, mostly to bring it up to operating temp. Re-lube it as per Lee's instructions. Then take a few wooden matches and deposit a layer of soot in each cavity (called "smoking" a mold). Try casting again. (2) If that doesn't improve things, purchase one of those egg-shaped Lyman casting ladles and use it. (I've been casting for 30 yrs. and have only had 1 mold which didn't cast perfectly using a ladle.) (3) You may want to add a 4" long pc. of 50-50 solder (~1/16" diameter) to a full pot to slightly lower surface tension of your Pb. (4) I generally cast Pb at 800 deg. F and get many more "keepers" than rejects. Since your melt is glowing, I don't think that's a problem. Indeed, you may need to lower the temp. (5) You may also need to flux your molten Pb to remove impurities and also to lower surface tension. (6) Lastly, although Al molds heat up quickly, they also cool off quickly, so you have to keep up a steady, if not rapid casting rhythm. Can't think of anything else at the moment, but I hope this helps.

After 45+ years of casting I regretfully must disagree with almost everything Maven said.
'smoking' moulds might not hurt but is pointless.
Lubricating molds is not necessary. Using both Lee, Lyman, and other moulds I have never lubed and, therefore, see no point in doing it.
Use only pure lead if available. DO NOT harden what you have. :nono:
800 degrees is quite hot. I cast about 700 to 750 degrees.
Put the whole mould in the lead. When lead no longer sticks it is hot enough to cast.
Wrinkles indicate not hot enough. You lead might be hot enough but your mould, timing, etc. are way off.
A red glow off of the molten lead is a new one on me. Could it be a reflection of impurities in the top skim?
As suggested, you might be better off using a dipper. Some have luck with the Lee bottom pours but, IMHO, they are a prank of the devil.
Work safely. Try again and let us know your results.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Cyntialee, glad to see you have evolved to advising on this subject. Far cry from your own first tentative attempts at casting.
:thumbsup: Carry on.

 

[Billnpatti]

Lots of good info here and I doubt that I could add much to what has already been said. But, living in Indiana, you ought to not have any problem finding someone who casts round balls for a muzzleloader. I used to live in Southern Indiana and there was no shortage of fellow muzzleloading enthusiests who were more than glad to give me any help I needed. If you don't already belong to one of the many muzzleloading clubs in Indiana, find the closest one and join it. That will enable you to invite a fellow muzzleloading enthusiest to your house to show you how to cast perfect balls. Then invite him to share a home cooked meal and he will be more than willing to help in the future. Or, if you have access to some good squirrel hunting property, take him along and you will have a friend for life. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Maven]

A few points Rifleman 1776: Poor fillout, wrinkles, etc. can sometimes be cured by adding a tiny bit of Sn (via 50/50 solder or 37/63). It does NOT harden the Pb in any meaningful way. An oily mold cavity and too little heat are the others. Second, Lee Precision will tell you one of their biggest problems with returned molds is failure to lube them as per their instructions. Not iron (meehanite) or brass molds, but Lee Al molds specifically. As for the rest of your post, let's agree that there are many ways to get perfect casts, including smoking molds, your methods and my methods among them. They both work, don't they, and the point is to help the original poster, not criticize each other's methods?

 

[putodebabylon]

"Put the whole mould in the lead. "

:shocked2: you mean like dunk the thing? So that the cavities will be filled when I pull it out?

Lots of good things to try here, thanks all! :hatsoff:

 

[Rifleman1776]

"Put the whole mould in the lead. "

you mean like dunk the thing? So that the cavities will be filled when I pull it out?

That wouldn't hurt anything, the lead would just run off. But, I put it in closed. Same with dipper. When the lead won't stick I am ready to roll.

 

[cynthialee]

Cyntialee, glad to see you have evolved to advising on this subject. Far cry from your own first tentative attempts at casting.
:thumbsup: Carry on.

:redface:

 

[Bill Hall]

Don't use the bottom pour,
Get a ladel and dip lead out of the top,,
Even the Lee ladel will hold enough for a dual cavity 490 cast.

:thumbsup: I'll betcha this will solve your problem. I'll go one step further and add that you should get the biggest ladle, or spoon, or whatever you can fit in the top of your pot, to pour your lead. Having more lead in your ladle keeps the lead hotter longer, so it doesn't cool as much as you're pouring. I use either a really big aluminum spoon (about two feet long) or a regular plumber's ladle. I probably scoop out a half pound of lead as I pour, even for a single cavity. Just pour what you don't use back into the pot. Doing it this way also helps keep your ladle hot. The more lead you scoop up, the hotter everything stays. Bill

 

[cynthialee]

I had a crapy tiny ladle that wasn't holding enough lead to stay hot or pour enough lead for my dual cavity mold. I broke down and got a larger ladle (one of them odd egg shaped ones) and it is perfect for the job. Holds plenty of lead for the mold I am ussing.

 

[putodebabylon]

Don't use the bottom pour,
Get a ladel and dip lead out of the top,,
Even the Lee ladel will hold enough for a dual cavity 490 cast.

:thumbsup: I'll betcha this will solve your problem. ...

You bet right! Spent half the day casting. Cranked out a whole bunch of .490 and .454 balls and also a bunch of .45-70 bullets all using the ladle. Using the ladle, I only have to cast maybe 5 times to heat up a cold mold to get usable balls. I think the problem is that the bottom pour pours too slowly which is why my roundballs look like they were made by a soft serve machine.

Thanks everyone! :hatsoff:

 

[Stony]

I use a Lee bottom pour pot too. You can adjust the flow rate so it fills up slowly or fast. I put the bottom quarter of my mold in the melted lead and when the lead will not stay on the mold I start to cast. I make sure a small puddle of lead forms on the spure plate. Once the lead cools enough, I strike off the mold puddle and tapping the hinge get the ball to drop out. Then it's pour another.

 

[fyrfyter43]

Paul V. will be rolling in his grave when I say this, but if you're going to stick with ladle casting, it would be a good idea to seal up the bottom pour spout and remove the valve. This will prevent the pot from leaking, and it will get the valve assembly out of the way for you. Personally, I welded mine shut, but I have heard of others plugging it with a self-tapping screw.

 

[capt_turk]

I had the same problem to start. Ended up getting a stainless gravy ladle and all my problems went away. I keep the ladle in the lead so it stays hot. If I don't, the lead cools too fast to get a good pour.
I heat with a small propane stove. I keep the mold sitting beside the pot until I'm ready to pour, otherwise, I do have trouble getting a good ball.
I've found that if the lead on top of the sprue plate solidifies faster than about 5 seconds that the balls will be bad.
Another tip is to make sure you keep the mold close to the surface of the lead to keep the mold from cooling off too much while you are pouring.