The inefficiences of Flintlocks

[Scipio]

Artificer:

Roger -- when anything is broken on a firearm, it will adversely effect outcomes. And can be dangerous, too.

The original question wasn't what happens when a vent is blown out due to wear. It implied that the gas leaking from the vent was the problem. And that is one I don't buy.

I will buy into a blown out vent or nipple causing accuracy problems but probably not because of the loss of five or ten feet per second of velocity.

More so that the flash, flame, and maybe even a change in recoil and or noise will have a greater affect on the shooter than mechanical accuracy of the rifle.

Yep, a guy can load too much BP and blow semi or unburned powder out the barrel. Way better than too much smokeless crammed into a centerfire case!

I have a simple rule when it comes to rifles. Barrels are expendable items. Luckily for guys who shoot muzzle loaders, a quality muzzle loading barrel is way less than the price of a Krieger.

Scipio

 

[smo]

As stated ..... there not for everybody

Some just simply can’t shoot em’


Sorry that was uncalled for... just funnin ya’

 

[Scipio]

SMO:

Ha! I personally like flintlocks. I have four right now. A Leonard Day swivel breach, a Gostomski Trade Gun, a fake Baker smoothbore made in India somewhere (that shoots quite well) and a TVM Jaeger I picked up last week. Some day I will try and get a decent side by side smooth bore but I will use it with ball more than shot so the barrels need to be short and it has to be regulated. Fat chance! A double rifle would be OK too. Fatter chance!

I no longer have any percussion rifles. If I got another one, it would probably be a Shutzen style or maybe another .54 Sharps.

I harbor no prejudice when it comes to firearms of any type.

Scipio

 

[azmntman]

I harbor no prejudice when it comes to firearms of any type.
:hmm:

I do. Cant even recall what it is called but its a cf bar room type uzi type complete POS that has no accuracy and just kills everyone. Buddy had one. I laughed at him and told him I could likely reload and shoot him between the eyes faster than he could sweep the room and take me out (I'd just duck). That gun is absolutely WORTHLESS. Puts a whole new meaning on "pop a cap on yo a_s". :td: :shake: :idunno: :surrender:

 

[smo]

It’s all good :hatsoff:

 

[coloradoclyde]

I harbor no prejudice when it comes to firearms of any type.

:hmm:

I do. Cant even recall what it is called but its a cf bar room type uzi type complete POS that has no accuracy and just kills everyone. Buddy had one. I laughed at him and told him I could likely reload and shoot him between the eyes faster than he could sweep the room and take me out (I'd just duck). That gun is absolutely WORTHLESS. Puts a whole new meaning on "pop a cap on yo a_s". :td: :shake: :idunno: :surrender:

Some guns have only one purpose....To give guns a bad name. :hatsoff:

 

[Vaino]

As usual when a topic becomes :dead: , many of the posts are already off topic or irrelevant. But for the sake of non-censorship and freedom of thought, let it continue.

The 2 inefficiencies of flintlocks that I mentioned were not a criticism, but might just tip off some person who's just getting into flints.

To lessen the effects of the 2 above inefficiencies, a minimum sized TH could be used and also a better PRB combo to seal up the grooves.

Because of unreliable ignition of some flintlocks, many enlarge THs to dias that spew a lot of gas and don't realize that a TH is a direct path to the outside and is a source of pressure loss.

More subtle is a PRB combo that allows excessive blowby along the grooves of the rifling. This is caused by some who want an easy loading PRB. Some amount of blowby can not be eliminated, but the amount can be minimized.

Some will say "so what if my flintlock is inefficient...it goes bang and it's accurate and afterall, it's a "primitive weapon". Naturally target shooters' only concern is accuracy and all their efforts are towards that end and whether their rifles are efficient, isn't of great concern....nothing wrong w/ that.

After many years of handloading for CFs, I just like to develop more efficient and accurate loads for my MLers....both cappers and flints and was amazed at how easy it was to attain the above when some thought was applied.....Fred

 

[Col. Batguano]

I'm sure that they made S x S double rifles in flint, but finding them is tricky, even if you have an unlimited budget. You will likely have more luck finding one in a cap gun. There are more SxS guns in smooth bore than in rifles. As far as contemporary makers making them I think it's rare indeed, particularly in a rifle. With a shotgun all the patterns have to do is overlap. With a rifle they have to hit to roughly the same point of aim, and regulating barrels is tedious work indeed.

That said, you can probably find a decent vintage SxS flint rifle in the $7000-$8000 range, and about half that in a cap gun. A contemporary custom build is going to cost about 10x that in a rifle, for someone that knows what they're doing

 

[bender20]

Look into Dave Price. It’s not a side by side, but it’s a a swivel breach and IMHO really freaking cool.

 

[nkbj]

I want to do some testing for myself on how badly flinter vent hole size affects shot to shot consistency at longer ranges with long bullets about like REALs. Not a matter of inefficiency but rather inconsistency brought about by random factors of clumps, burning molten liquified sulfur and salt peter, pressure waves, whatever.

 

[smo]

That sounds like a great test :thumbsup: :hmm:

 

[Scipio]

Hmmm.

So, what are the variables you will test and how will you control them?

Just asking before you spend a whole lot of time and money. These things can get to be real bottomless pits unless they start out very clearly planned.

Scipio

 

[tenngun]

Alright, let’s just imagine an ml with a completely sealed breach. Firing pulled off with a spark plug powered by electric power pack in your butt stock. Then you wad the gun well to protect your patched ball from blow by. Or you load a REAL type conical projectile. Now what?
The round ball is the most inefficient projectile ever invented with Minnie’s and Maxie’s fighting it out for second and third place

 

[coloradoclyde]

I think the round ball was what probably drew me to muzzleloaders in the first place......An adult magnum version of my Daisy Red Ryder.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I like that. :wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

There are those that may loathe the round ball for it's "inefficiencies" but, Not me....I embrace it and all of it's wonderful charm and elegant simplicity.

 

[azmntman]

:metoo:

was YEARS til I even knew about conicals. I was introduced to "poly patches" early on and used em for awhile.

ff

 

[tenngun]

Isn’t that the point of the sport? 1) how close can we get to recreating a life experience of a past time. Or 2) how well we can make a previous technology work for us.
A dyed in the capote traditionallist or a dedicated ”˜blood shooter’ whose only shooting a traditional styled gun but wants as many bells and whistles as possible and still stay traditional but get the very best he can from the gun, are both trying to deal with the inefficiency of the old guns.
A match gun or a 300 win mag is a lot easier to deal with then a traditional ml, but that’s not the point is it.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Isn’t that the point of the sport? .

Yes, it is to me.....

 

[nkbj]

The one I'm really wanting to wring out is a flinter Renegade, .52 bore 28" twist.