Also , not to be ignored , an older basic gun would be given to a young person to use and abuse. What would be the sense of giving a fancy rifle to a beginner. Even in modern times , I was giver a lesser rifle to use instead of Dad's "better" guns.
Good grief! Sorry about that, Eric!The "aged" Lehigh rifle that will be auctioned at Morphy's was not made by Shawn Webster. I made it ca. 1999-2001 and when I sold it, it was sold as an "as new" schimmel/barn gun with a very simple finish. Over the years it has passed through various owners who have aged it and added a box, cheek star and bored out the barrel to a larger caliber. I like it better now than when I built it!
Yes, it has a rear sight. I’m not convinced the iron rammer is original to the gun. In practice it’s too short to clean without a long tow worm. No carving around the entry pipe. The carving is most like that of Jacob Metzger in my view.Rich,
Does that "gun" have a rear sight? Carving around the entry pipe?
'Parts gun" seems an apt description, iron rammer and all, and with nicely executed tang carving at that!
The darn gun is in storage but I will check in a week or two, Bob. I think that where the missing thimble inlet is, there may have been a swivel pin. I will check for a missing underlug.What a great old gun, @rich pierce ! Thanks for posting.
I see a perforation for a sling swivel in the forward boss of the trigger guard. Is there any provision for a sling swivel on the forend?
Notchy Bob
Iron was common in the mountains; brass was more costly. That's why Iron was the commonly used trim material; iron barrels, etc. Early iron foundries were common in the earliest settled areas.I know well that what we call Poor boy style surfaced around 1800 but there had to be a precursor. could it be possible that people of low income were using brass mounted rifles with no patch box, nose cap, and or side plate in the 1770s
Be cool to see what people come up with!These two rifles, from the Contemporary Makers blogspot, are modern-made, but I think may illustrate the idea that @StarnesRowan has presented to us.
This one was made in 2009 by by well-known maker, Jack Brooks:
View attachment 92276
Mr. Brooks called it a "frontier rifle," something that might have been assembled on the frontier from recycled parts. No buttplate, sideplate, or entry pipes. Lock and ramrod pipes from an English trade gun, barrel and guard from an American rifle, and a silver wrist escutcheon from a fine French gun:
View attachment 92278
The next rifle is a Lehigh-styled schimmel by Shawn Webster, another well-respected present-day builder:
View attachment 92279
No buttplate, sideplate, entry pipe, or nosecap, but it does have an iron-lidded patchbox with a whimsical "Allentown Indian" engraving:
View attachment 92280
There is a lot to like about this rifle, and I find the mix of iron and brass furniture interesting. I could do without the faked damage and "repairs," though:
View attachment 92281
View attachment 92282
I don't own either of these rifles, although I sure would like to. I think there may be a trend among today's builders to work with this concept of mixed parts and rustic construction. I find it appealing.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
I know well that what we call Poor boy style surfaced around 1800 but there had to be a precursor. could it be possible that people of low income were using brass mounted rifles with no patch box, nose cap, and or side plate in the 1770s
Well, if ol' Wally says it, that's good enough for me! Thanks for this interesting entry.I have been down this road. Been there, done this....
The truth is you are going about it backwards. One could assume that there has to be an earlier "origin" of a type that existed in 1800-1810. The truth is maybe not.
Lets look at some 20th Century artifacts. Say automobiles. Lets start with two Chevrolets, a 1959 and a 1949. We assume there has to be some kind of transition from the 49 to the 59. All we have to go by are some mixed parts, a Buick fender we think is from 1953 and a Plymouth bumper we think is from 1955. We also have some vague stories about servicing these cars or trips taken in them.
Do you think what we come up with will look anything like a 1955 Chevy?
Just because some guy builds a contraption he calls a 1955 Chevy in 2021; a thing with a 49 front, a '59 roof and 59 tail fins with the cat eye taillights, is this really a '55 Chevy? No it's not. What it is a fantasy. It's fantasy built with not enough info to be a true representative.
In a sense, it's futile.
There's market for this 2021 49/59 thing. It's driven by 2021 economics. I want there to be...this type of gun because it's cheap or cheaper than one of those so called "fancy" guns.
What we need to do is research and go by what we have, what actually exists instead of looking for the "missing link".
If you really want a historical gun, the answer is to study historical guns...really study them, the makers and the regions.
What you will find is actually more fascinating than what somebody makes up.
Here's some clues for study....
Start with Trade Guns...
Start with the German/Moravian immigrants
Study the early 1st generation builders
Study the migration routes...Great Wagon Road
Study the deerskin trade...
Study the class structure of the period
Study the guilds and standard of craftsmanship.
Study the industry of England...English trade rifles and how they copied American rifles and thus American rifles copied them.
Study Colonial Industry
Key in on a particular areas of interest...say the second or third generation builders of
This is pretty obvious but study existing guns.
What you will find is all this stuff interconnects like a spider web.
The thing is there are "plainer" rifles all throughout the period but they are not necessarily what you assume they are.
Here's a key fact...The rifle was a Middle Class arm. It was an essential tool like a tractor or truck today. In other words they were not cheap as lives/livelihood depended on them.
I find the frontier gunsmiths of Pa, Virginia. The second Generation "farmer gunsmiths of Tennessee, NC, and SC are fascinating. The Bulls, The Beans, The Russels, Thomas Simpson,..there's many, many more. The The Cumberland School, Overthemountainmen, Watauga, You'll find these guys have links to the Lauks, the Becks, Dickert and the PA styles and makers....
It's an adventure....
Start with the books,
Go to shows,
Wallace Gusler who has studied this all his life when asked, " What is the most accurate history of the Pennsylvania/Kentucky Rifle?" his reply was " There is none."
I'm gonna try to get to the rifle show Oct. 1st, It's Morgantown, Pa., I think.I have been down this road. Been there, done this....
The truth is you are going about it backwards. One could assume that there has to be an earlier "origin" of a type that existed in 1800-1810. The truth is maybe not.
Lets look at some 20th Century artifacts. Say automobiles. Lets start with two Chevrolets, a 1959 and a 1949. We assume there has to be some kind of transition from the 49 to the 59. All we have to go by are some mixed parts, a Buick fender we think is from 1953 and a Plymouth bumper we think is from 1955. We also have some vague stories about servicing these cars or trips taken in them.
Do you think what we come up with will look anything like a 1955 Chevy?
Just because some guy builds a contraption he calls a 1955 Chevy in 2021; a thing with a 49 front, a '59 roof and 59 tail fins with the cat eye taillights, is this really a '55 Chevy? No it's not. What it is a fantasy. It's fantasy built with not enough info to be a true representative.
In a sense, it's futile.
There's market for this 2021 49/59 thing. It's driven by 2021 economics. I want there to be...this type of gun because it's cheap or cheaper than one of those so called "fancy" guns.
What we need to do is research and go by what we have, what actually exists instead of looking for the "missing link".
If you really want a historical gun, the answer is to study historical guns...really study them, the makers and the regions.
What you will find is actually more fascinating than what somebody makes up.
Here's some clues for study....
Start with Trade Guns...
Start with the German/Moravian immigrants
Study the early 1st generation builders
Study the migration routes...Great Wagon Road
Study the deerskin trade...
Study the class structure of the period
Study the guilds and standard of craftsmanship.
Study the industry of England...English trade rifles and how they copied American rifles and thus American rifles copied them.
Study Colonial Industry
Key in on a particular areas of interest...say the second or third generation builders of
This is pretty obvious but study existing guns.
What you will find is all this stuff interconnects like a spider web.
The thing is there are "plainer" rifles all throughout the period but they are not necessarily what you assume they are.
Here's a key fact...The rifle was a Middle Class arm. It was an essential tool like a tractor or truck today. In other words they were not cheap as lives/livelihood depended on them.
I find the frontier gunsmiths of Pa, Virginia. The second Generation "farmer gunsmiths of Tennessee, NC, and SC are fascinating. The Bulls, The Beans, The Russels, Thomas Simpson,..there's many, many more. The The Cumberland School, Overthemountainmen, Watauga, You'll find these guys have links to the Lauks, the Becks, Dickert and the PA styles and makers....
It's an adventure....
Start with the books,
Go to shows,
Wallace Gusler who has studied this all his life when asked, " What is the most accurate history of the Pennsylvania/Kentucky Rifle?" his reply was " There is none."
There’s an extra inlet for a thimble that’s no longer there.View attachment 92374View attachment 92378
It was written by Mr. Dixon and used in his book "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle".I think as stated above that Dixon either coined the term or popularized it. Wish i could remember where I saw it written by him.
It was written by Mr. Dixon and used in his book "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle".
I bought that book and used it to help me while building my first longrifle from parts. Still do reference it once in a while.
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