Tecumseh's trade gun !?!????

[Skychief]

I ran across a thread here mentioning Tecumseh's (great Shawnee leader) trade gun is on display in The Fur Trade museum in Nebraska. I went to their webpage and sure enough, there was a trade gun purported to be Tecumseh's.

Does anybody know what providence (evidence) they used to claim the gun as his??? I found no more information about the gun other than the claim that it was his. Any information is very appreciated.

As always, your help is much appreciated! :bow:

Skychief.

 

[bwkelly]

Tecumseh supposedly traded it for a rifle, and it was passed down through the former rifle owner's family. That's all I remember off the top of my head. Volume 1, issue 1 of "The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly" should fill you in on the details.

 

[pichou]

Its a British Indian Department marked NWTG. The rest is a family legend. :wink:

 

[Skychief]

Its a British Indian Department marked NWTG. The rest is a family legend. :wink:

Huh? :idunno:

Sorry Pichou....it's surely me, but, I don't know what you mean. :redface:

 

[paulvallandigham]

All that we really know is that Tecumseh died in Canada in a fight at the Battle of the Thames in Oct.,1813. The day before, he had foreseen his own death, and gave away his private possessions to friends and family. IF he had a gun at that time, it would have been given to someone at that time. After his death, its anyone's guess as to what it was, and where it went. Tecumseh rose to become a powerful Indian leader within his Shawnee tribe, and among the several Indian nations that had combined together to resist Wester Expansion by Americans. He attempted to unite all the Indian tribes east of the Mississippi to stand together against the American expansion, but failed to gain the cooperation of most of the tribes. He allied himself and his tribe with the British about the time that the War of 1812 broke out, fighting other Indian tribes that refused to join him, and the British against the Americans. He did participate in the taking of Fort Detroit, a major American defeat early in the war, closing the water connections to all the Great Lakes trading posts and forts by doing so. He proved to be both an able politician, and an able general in battle.

His burial site is also unknown for sure, as his body was taken away from the battlefield during the night following the battle by his friends, and buried secretly.

 

[matt denison]

Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly. Volume 1; 1; page 8.

I'll paraphrase a couple of sentences.

It was aquired by the museum in 1954 from a Mr. Benton Kidwell. In an affidavit Kidwell states that he aquired the gun from John Walker in 1939. It had been in continuous posession of the Walker family since 1808. For more details you need to get the Quarterly for yourself or find someone who is willing to type more than I.

Paul, are you saying that when Tecumsah went into battle that day he didn't have a gun because he had given it away the day before he knew he was going to need it? That doesn't sound "likely" to me.

Mr. L. Dog

 

[Dphar]

Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly. Volume 1; 1; page 8.

I'll paraphrase a couple of sentences.

It was aquired by the museum in 1954 from a Mr. Benton Kidwell. In an affidavit Kidwell states that he aquired the gun from John Walker in 1939. It had been in continuous posession of the Walker family since 1808. For more details you need to get the Quarterly for yourself or find someone who is willing to type more than I.

Paul, are you saying that when Tecumsah went into battle that day he didn't have a gun because he had given it away the day before he knew he was going to need it? That doesn't sound "likely" to me.

Mr. L. Dog

I seem to remember reading that Tecumseh did trade a smoothbore for a rifle. This could be the gun I suppose. Would have to refresh my memory.

Dan

 

[paulvallandigham]

Indians did not view war as we do. They believed in their visions, as part of their religion, as well as their daily life. He may have traded this gun to someone before this final battle, for a different gun, or used only a hawk in the fight, or some other weapon. He may have had another gun that he took into the battle. He believed that he was going to die in that battle, and would have chosen how he would want to be presented in the hereafter, being absolutely confident in his vision of his own death that day.

See also, Allan Eckert, "Gateway to Empire", p. 689.

I "googled" Tecvumseh, and one of the more interesting pieces of folklore I found was a comment on Wikipedia that the Vice President with Van Buren was elected largely on his claim that it was he, personally, who killed Tecumseh.
________________________________________

"...Harrison crossed into Upper Canada and on October 5, 1813, won a victory over the British and Native Americans at the Battle of the Thames near Moraviantown. Tecumseh was killed, and shortly after the battle, the tribes of his confederacy surrendered to Harrison at Detroit.[15] In 1836 and 1837, in part because of reports that it was he who had killed Tecumseh, Richard Mentor Johnson was elected vice-president of the United States, to serve with Martin Van Buren...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh

___________________________________________

As boring as American History was taught in both Grammar School, and HS, I had not been told this piece of "history". And its not in my College History text either. But, then, Vice Presidents don't get much attention in American History unless they go on to he elected President.

 

[Skychief]

Interesting. Eckart is a heck of a writer as well as reasercher (Draper collection). 'The Frontiersman' is outstanding. Thanks Paul.

 

[jlynn]

Johnson was known as "Rumsy Dumsy" in Kentucky as he campaigned for office showing off (waving) what he claimed was Tecumseh's bloody shirt taken off of the body. Campaign song was "Rumsy Dumsy Col. Johnson shot Tecumseh" Great crowd pleaser in Ky. where Tecumseh was hated. "Waving a bloody shirt" became a campaign tactic later used bu Republicans trying to link N. Democrats to being soft on secession-shirts here supposedly from n soldiers killed in the war. Johnson -very popular in the West was chosen to run as VP to balance Van B who was from N.Y. Johnson's personal life as VP was Huge embarassment to Democrats.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Van Buren's term as President was also seen as unremarkable in history. Thanks for the additional information on VP Johnson.

 

[colmoultrie]

Try telling most Cherokee that Van Buren's term was unremarkable!

Actually, you had the Panic of 1837, the Trail of Tears, the creation of the Independent Treasury (which made the Panic worse), and to end it all, the election of WH Harrison, who in turn was only remarkable for becoming the first president to die in office. BTW., Harrison's biggest claim to fame was beating Tenskwatawa, "The Prophet," Tecumseh's brother, at the battle that gave Harrison his nickname.

 

[Rod Lassey]

Skychief--what Pichou is getting at is that all we know positively is that this particular NW gun came from the British Indian Dept., and is so branded on the stock---which is a rare enough find as it is. If we can believe the oral history with it, it may well be Tecumseh's NW gun. At any rate, he supposedly traded it off well before the War of 1812.

By the way, if anyone wants to read a couple of good books on this aspect of the War of 1812, I recommend Pierre Berton's two volume set, Flames Across the Border, and The Invasion of Canada. Berton has a different style of writing, that really places you in the action.

Rod

 

[Canuck Bob]

As a Canadian lad raised in south western Ontario Tecumseh was a bonafide hero and one of the few Indian warriors truly reverred by the rather racist British.

It is interesting to hear our mutual history discussed here. And it is interesting the different takes we have. The war was very much a Canadian versus US war to my family. The local Canadian militias and natives far outnumbered the regular British. My family heritage is deeply embedded in the Upper Canadian Scots with our family land holdings recorded far before the War of 1812.

My grandfather referred to all Americans as republicans and it was not a political party. They were followers of the French Republicans and not highly regarded in the elderly community in my youth.

The underground railway ended in our county during the years leading up to the Civil War. In fact the first school for African slaves was a few miles from the farm. There is still a large black community in the region that dates to that time. Interestingly though most of the African slaves returned home to the south after the war, didn't like our weather I think.

 

[Dphar1950]

The Shawnees were known to be rifle armed from the 1740s. Many Eastern Tribes were good riflemen. It does not surprise me in the slightest that Tecumseh would trade off his NWG for a rifle.

 

[Sam squanch]

Read a good book about the war of 1812. We had a very nearsighted general who rode up to what he thought were his American troops, berating them for cowardice. Once the Canadian troops stopped laughing, they captured him....it was a very strange war with relatives on both sides. One Canadian woman caught a US militiaman in her house eating her food. Turns out it was her nephew! It was fun and games until the US troops turned out Canadian woman and children out in the cold of one village to freeze to death. The Canadian troops massacred the US boys later for it.

 

[fillwa]

Interesting. Eckart is a heck of a writer as well as reasercher (Draper collection). 'The Frontiersman' is outstanding. Thanks Paul.

Love all his books!