I just got a very old but nice kal 45 Patriot. I do have a kal 45 and kal 50 TC Hawken also. Can i use the same Ball/ Patch combinations in the >>Patriot. as in the Hawken.Any things to watch for when you handle the Patriot. Best load for targets
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TC Thompson Patriot
- Thread starter crv
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Patch/ball combo will likely work just fine but as in all BP arms you should experiment and find what that particular pistol likes. May want a .445 ball vs .440, may want a thicker of thinner patch than the Hawkins, may like a different lube for the patches. Since you asked about most accurate load....yer gonna have to take a few days off work and go to the range (Tell yer boss it's OK, educational :rotf: ). Good luck!
I got one in the mid 80's and I used a loading stand and the power charge per the manual and broke the stock. They replaced it but I still have not shot it again. A lot of people say use a top 20 grains of power and do not use a loading stand and you should should OK.
I can use the Trapper and with 40 grains and a sabot and it rocks.
I can use the Trapper and with 40 grains and a sabot and it rocks.
I've got two TC Patriot pistols. One in .45 caliber and the other is .36 caliber.
BOTH pistols shoot very well with 15 grains 3F Goex. The .45 likes a .440 ball and the .36 likes to shoot 000 buck, which is .350. I use pillow ticking and cut at the muzzle.
I don't use a loading stand out of fear of cracking a stock. I bought the .45 cracked and repaired it. Haven't had any other problems.
I have shot 25 grains and even 35 grains. Accuracy was severely compromised. I was dumbfounded at first. An old-timer at the field told me to start at 10 grains and work up from there. 15 grains is good even out to 50 yards.
BOTH pistols shoot very well with 15 grains 3F Goex. The .45 likes a .440 ball and the .36 likes to shoot 000 buck, which is .350. I use pillow ticking and cut at the muzzle.
I don't use a loading stand out of fear of cracking a stock. I bought the .45 cracked and repaired it. Haven't had any other problems.
I have shot 25 grains and even 35 grains. Accuracy was severely compromised. I was dumbfounded at first. An old-timer at the field told me to start at 10 grains and work up from there. 15 grains is good even out to 50 yards.
Your Patriot will be happy shooting the same balls your using in your .45 Hawken but the pistol should not be loaded with a thick patch.
Often, the patches for the rifle need to be thick to withstand the pressures from large powder charges.
While this is fine for a stout rifle where ramming a very tight ball and patch combination down the bore isn't a problem it can cause problems with a pistol.
Many pistols can use a much thinner patch because the powder loads are much smaller than a rifle would use.
The thinner patch will also make ramming the patched ball down the bore much easier.
This can be very important with the Patriot which has a notoriously weak stock on it. It often can develop cracks in it from either using it as a rest while loading or from shooting heavy powder charges under heavy slugs.
Often, the patches for the rifle need to be thick to withstand the pressures from large powder charges.
While this is fine for a stout rifle where ramming a very tight ball and patch combination down the bore isn't a problem it can cause problems with a pistol.
Many pistols can use a much thinner patch because the powder loads are much smaller than a rifle would use.
The thinner patch will also make ramming the patched ball down the bore much easier.
This can be very important with the Patriot which has a notoriously weak stock on it. It often can develop cracks in it from either using it as a rest while loading or from shooting heavy powder charges under heavy slugs.
I have a Patriot with a hairline crack on the left side opposite the lock, emanates from the lock washer into the panel. I got it last year and hesitate to fire it until I can attend to the crack. Looks to have been fired very little. I've seen a number of these guns with a similar stock crack and wonder if the crack came from the use of a loading stand or from over tightening the side lock screw or a combination of both. Still, a beautiful pistol.
It's easy to fix.
Disassemble the gun. Mainly, the tang, barrel and lock should be removed. I also removed the trigger, but it wasn't really necessary.
Go to a hobby store that sells radio control airplanes or radio control cars. In the glue section they will have cyanoacrylate glues (Super glue) But this isn't the same super glue you buy at the grocery store or even the hardware store. It comes in 3 different viscosity - THIN (blue cap), MEDIUM (purple cap) and THICK (red cap). Hobby stores call it CA (see aay)
You want the THIN. The stuff is like water or rubbing alcohol in viscosity.
Mask off the stock with blue painters masking tape. You DO NOT want this stuff going anyplace except into the crack. Mask right up to the edge of the crack. Get the tape within 1/32" of the crack, then mask off the rest of the stock.
Get some of your wife's extra-strength fingernail polish remover or even real acetone. Get a cotton cloth or some cotton balls.
Unscrew the needle tip from the bottle of CA and cut the tiniest hole you can get. I use an exacto blade and shave off a tiny bit and then check to see if there's a hole yet. Go slow, you only get to do this once and too big a hole makes this VERY difficult. Once you've got a tiny hole, screw the needle tip back on and put the cap on the bottle. Basically, cut it open like a tube of caulking. But the hole needs to be the size of a needle.
The reason you take the needle tip off the bottle, is because you'll have a tendency to squeeze the bottle while gripping it and cutting the tip off. When you finally get a hole in the tip -- SQUIRT -- right in your eye! Trip to emergency room - intense pain - nasty burned eyeball - don't do it. Take the top off when you're cutting the hole. Trust me.
Put your CA in the refrigerator for about 45 minutes. The cold makes it even thinner. I know it sounds weird, but it works.
When you've got the CA good and cold, take it out and put the tiniest few drops into the crack. The stuff runs like water and it will make an AWFUL mess if you squeeze the bottle. Let the drops come out on their own. Be gentle.
When the CA hits the crack, the stock will soak it up like a sponge. It wicks into the crack and flows evenly. Depending on the length of your crack, it might take 3-5 drops to "wet out" the entire crack.
Have the fingernail polish remover or acetone handy, and a willing assistant if you can find one. SOAK the cotton cloth or cotton balls in the solvent and wipe any excess off the crack immediately!!
It sets almost instantly. I would not recommend this if you were trying to glue 2 pieces of wood back together, because any misalignment when sticking the pieces together = a ruined piece. It sets up so fast you have no time to align parts. When the parts make contact, it's done. But for cracks in wood - this is liquid gold!!
It sets fast and dries in a few minutes. I'd recommend you glue - wipe off excess with acetone and then immediately remove all the tape. Check for CA that wicked under the tape and wipe off immediately.
DO NOT use paper towels to wipe off spilled glue. They make a terrible mess. Use an old cotton t-shirt or cotton balls soaked in acetone or extra-strength fingernail polish remover.
I've been shooting mine for over 2yrs and it's held up. You can still see the crack, but it hasn't cracked anymore.
Hope this helps.
Disassemble the gun. Mainly, the tang, barrel and lock should be removed. I also removed the trigger, but it wasn't really necessary.
Go to a hobby store that sells radio control airplanes or radio control cars. In the glue section they will have cyanoacrylate glues (Super glue) But this isn't the same super glue you buy at the grocery store or even the hardware store. It comes in 3 different viscosity - THIN (blue cap), MEDIUM (purple cap) and THICK (red cap). Hobby stores call it CA (see aay)
You want the THIN. The stuff is like water or rubbing alcohol in viscosity.
Mask off the stock with blue painters masking tape. You DO NOT want this stuff going anyplace except into the crack. Mask right up to the edge of the crack. Get the tape within 1/32" of the crack, then mask off the rest of the stock.
Get some of your wife's extra-strength fingernail polish remover or even real acetone. Get a cotton cloth or some cotton balls.
Unscrew the needle tip from the bottle of CA and cut the tiniest hole you can get. I use an exacto blade and shave off a tiny bit and then check to see if there's a hole yet. Go slow, you only get to do this once and too big a hole makes this VERY difficult. Once you've got a tiny hole, screw the needle tip back on and put the cap on the bottle. Basically, cut it open like a tube of caulking. But the hole needs to be the size of a needle.
The reason you take the needle tip off the bottle, is because you'll have a tendency to squeeze the bottle while gripping it and cutting the tip off. When you finally get a hole in the tip -- SQUIRT -- right in your eye! Trip to emergency room - intense pain - nasty burned eyeball - don't do it. Take the top off when you're cutting the hole. Trust me.
Put your CA in the refrigerator for about 45 minutes. The cold makes it even thinner. I know it sounds weird, but it works.
When you've got the CA good and cold, take it out and put the tiniest few drops into the crack. The stuff runs like water and it will make an AWFUL mess if you squeeze the bottle. Let the drops come out on their own. Be gentle.
When the CA hits the crack, the stock will soak it up like a sponge. It wicks into the crack and flows evenly. Depending on the length of your crack, it might take 3-5 drops to "wet out" the entire crack.
Have the fingernail polish remover or acetone handy, and a willing assistant if you can find one. SOAK the cotton cloth or cotton balls in the solvent and wipe any excess off the crack immediately!!
It sets almost instantly. I would not recommend this if you were trying to glue 2 pieces of wood back together, because any misalignment when sticking the pieces together = a ruined piece. It sets up so fast you have no time to align parts. When the parts make contact, it's done. But for cracks in wood - this is liquid gold!!
It sets fast and dries in a few minutes. I'd recommend you glue - wipe off excess with acetone and then immediately remove all the tape. Check for CA that wicked under the tape and wipe off immediately.
DO NOT use paper towels to wipe off spilled glue. They make a terrible mess. Use an old cotton t-shirt or cotton balls soaked in acetone or extra-strength fingernail polish remover.
I've been shooting mine for over 2yrs and it's held up. You can still see the crack, but it hasn't cracked anymore.
Hope this helps.
meanmike8665
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Good info on the CA glue, one more piece of advice wear safety glass every time you work with CA glue.
Michael
Michael
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I have two .45 cal Patriot pistols. I shoot a .440 cal ball with pillow ticking and 20-25 grains FFFG. More powder than that is a waste.
I have no complaints about the pistol. I hold mine by the barrel during the loading process and do not use a loading stand. I don't let the stock come into contact with any hard surface during loading. I am careful to just snug up the lock bolt screw, and not tighten it too much. That can cause the stock to crack, as can too heavy a powder charge and pressure on the stock when using a loading stand.
I have been shooting mine for several years and have had no problems. I love the triggers too. Very accurate pistols. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I have no complaints about the pistol. I hold mine by the barrel during the loading process and do not use a loading stand. I don't let the stock come into contact with any hard surface during loading. I am careful to just snug up the lock bolt screw, and not tighten it too much. That can cause the stock to crack, as can too heavy a powder charge and pressure on the stock when using a loading stand.
I have been shooting mine for several years and have had no problems. I love the triggers too. Very accurate pistols. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Try 10-15 grains or even 12. :thumbsup:
don hepler
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I have a 45 Patriot pistol. I keep the charges down, to protect the risk of a stock cracking. I do not rest the butt of the pistol and pound on it, which might cause a crack. These are two things which are probable causes, for cracks. Nothing is confirmed.
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thanks for the tip about putting CA glue in the 'fridge to thin it out ... gotta give that a try!
Chris-
Thanks very much for the comprehensive how-to onrepairing the crack; much appreciated. Can't wait to fix it and get to the range with it.
Bob
Thanks very much for the comprehensive how-to onrepairing the crack; much appreciated. Can't wait to fix it and get to the range with it.
Bob
Thanks for the info.I just got one more nice Patriot in kal 45. It has taller land in the rifling than i first one. Does that mean it is more accurat than my first one with not that deep rifling. or is it ok that it has been used a lot and otherweise has no rust or pitting.
Regards
Lars
Regards
Lars
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Take the pistol to the range and have some fun with it. Let us know how it worked out for you. :thumbsup:
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I haven't done mine yet but believe these guns need the stock, at the lock and breech area, to be reinforced with glass bedding and perhaps a steel rod glued in from the grip butt to the tang screw. Mike D.
Shot the guns all day long using 040 ball and a patch lubed with wonderlube.Powder was 15 grains Triple seven FFF. I could start the ball with the short starter allone. grupping was nice at 25 meter.I think that a litte tighter patch/ ball combo would work even better. Great guns. Hits like my 2 Old Army Revolvers
don't go too tight of a patch, that is a recipe for a broken stock
DOUBLEDEUCE 1
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Try shooting from a sand bag rest if you haven't thought of that already. Then you can really spend some time figuring out a good powder charge.
