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TC renegade load problems

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Jimbrynn

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So, I just bought a TC renegade that has barely been shot, but I have accuracy issues. the gun does have the QLA system.

I set the gun up with a 1x thompson center scope and was shooting 80 grains of 3f pyrodex and using the Thompson center 370 grain maxiball. for a while it was shooting well, but now its all over the place....very weird.

At first, I thought it was the scope, so I rechecked everything, and even put on a different scope. At 25 yards, I could not even hit the paper with a bore sighted gun!

After a few shots, it seemed to stay on paper, but my 7 shot group at 25 yards was 15 inches... not good.

I decided to reduce the charge to 70 grains, and the gun shot better. Then went to 60 grains and the group tighten up to a 3 inch group At 25 yards.

I just cant figure out why the 80 grain load 2 weeks ago shot so well, and now it will not even hit paper....unless I reduce the charge....

here is what I know

26 inch barrel
1:48 twist
370 grain maxi ball
3f pyrodex
Magnum percussion caps

Am I doing something wrong?

Do you guys have any advice that might help this gun shoot more accurately? Powder? Bullet type/weight? Percussion cap?

thanks in advance. Jim
 

SDSmlf

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I’ve had some TCs that didn’t care for Maxi Balls no matter what was tried. Some would come around with a slightly oversized felt wad under the bullet. The QLA itself could be part of the problem. Had a TC Big Bore with an off center QLA that was about to get a haircut before someone took off my hands (told them about issue I was having). You may want to try a patched round ball. If it shoots well, you will have found at least one load that works.
 
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Based on your description of the 370 grain Maxi Ball this is a .50 cal.

This being the case go get a box of Hornady Great plains hollow base HP conicals and try them. My .54 Renegade shoots ragged one hole at 50 yards with them with 60 grains of 3F, and, FWIW, I once tried some Maxi Balls in it and it did NOT shoot them accurately at all.

What sucks is Hornady has dropped the Great Plains bullets in .54 and .58 - and I own one of each so I am looking at my options for the future.

Ditto on the suggestion to try RBs & patches. Typically this is a good 'benchmark' and as said if it shoots well then you solved part of your problem.
 

Danny Ross

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Okay you mentioned previously it shot well. What were the out side temps and weather conditions those two days? The reason I ask is because I had something similar happen with a Lyman GPR. One week shot almost one hole group week later was shooting all over. The difference was 20 degree temperature change. I have nothing against the powder you used I shot Pyrodex for years until this episode. I shot Pyrodex RS out of all of my Cap Locks. I had just started shooting a Flint Lock and had real Black Powder
 

Grenadier1758

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What lubrication are you using in the grooves? You need some lubrication to control the fouling even though Pyrodex is not a heavy fouling powder.

What was your cleaning regimen between shooting sessions?

And yes what were the weather conditions when shooting was good and what were the weather conditions when shooting accuracy was bad?

Or it could be the change in weather conditions could have had an adverse effect on the Pyrodex.
 

Carbon 6

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Sounds to me like he is stripping the rifling, which is why it shoots better the more he backs off the powder charge, I'll bet the rifling is leaded, rusted, gone, or the bullets are undersized.
Try some patched round balls.
 

Danny Ross

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To finish my story since the edit feature time me out as I accidently hit the post button when I started this and then tried to finish it. I had some real Black Powder 2F with me and I usually shot Pyrodex RS and had for years. I had always heard that Black Powder was better. So I tried it. I went from a 20 inch group shooting the Pyrodex at 50yds, to a 1.5 inch group with 6 shots at 50yds by just switching to the 2F Black Powder that day. I have not shot Pyrodex since that day and my other Caplocks shoot better with real Black Powder. Not saying it is the Pyrodex, but if you can get hold of some 3F Black Powder since you are shooting Pyrodex P, shoot the same load and see if it is more consistent. The GPR I was shooting was with a 54cal patched roundball. Just my experiance with a situation similar to yours. DANNY
 

Jimbrynn

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Hey all, thanks for all the info... the whole thing is really strange... I clean the gun after every 4 shots. Attached is a pick of the bore after cleaning. The guy I bought this from said it rarely got used. The outside of the gun is a gem. Not rust, or scratches on the stock, barrel is mint. she’s beautiful! Not knowing what the bore should look like, but the pick might mean something to you guys.

on the days is shot well, vs today, the temps were virtually the same. The TC max-hunters are lubed with TC bore butter and they slide right down the barrel without much effort....however after the 3rd shot then need some assistance getting down there....

IPC_2020-11-21.16.50.50.4850 dot jpg
 

Teewest

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Looks like you have a lot of lead or rust that took out your rifling. I have a T/C Hawken 50 and the bore looks a lot better than that and the rifle is 30 plus years old. If someone left it dirty for a little while in the past, it would ruin the bore even if it had only been fired 1 time in its life. I learned this the hard way and lost a pistol barrel when I was just 16 years old.
Have a good day
 

Jimbrynn

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If that is the case, not sure what my options are....I guess I could purchase a green mountain barrel replacement? Here is another pic of the rifling with a side view....




IPC_2020-11-21.17.29.50.9440 dot jpg
 

SDSmlf

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How are you cleaning the bore? When it’s clean, how does it feel when you run a tight patch on a jag down it? About the same all the way, or some tight spots? Still think you should try a few patched roundballs. Even a rough bore can shoot them accurately, will usually just be tougher to keep clean between shots.

Got to figure out what you are seeing with your borescope, crud or corrosion, before next steps, at least in my opinion.
 

Jimbrynn

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All I am using is Thompson center bore cleaner....should I try a more aggressive cleaner Like I would use in my rifles to remove lead and copper fouling?
 
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If someone left it dirty for a little while in the past, it would ruin the bore even if it had only been fired 1 time in its life.
Not necessarily.

I was given a Renegade that had not been cleaned in over 20 years and slow, careful work brought it back to about 90+ percent of its original condition and it shoots incredibly well.

I did perform a 'judicious' lapping of the barrel with water based valve lapping compound and I think the OP may need to do this as well - but I think he needs to start with a more 'aggressive' barrel cleaning to begin with.
 

SDSmlf

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If you are using TC 13 Bore Cleaner, there are better choices. The stuff does not have a good reputation. Good old warm water and a bit of dish soap does a better job in my opinion. Remove the barrel from the stock, remove the nipple, put some warm water in a container, and pump with a tight patch and jag combination. Don’t forget to use muzzle protector if you have one. Repeat with just warm water, they dry with compressed air if available, followed with WD40. Store the barrel over night muzzle down. Take another look the next day and see what the bore looks like. May need to follow up with a bore brush and a solvent to remove lead if that what you find. Could try one of those foaming cleaners like Wipe-Out and or a bore polish such as J-Bs. That will likely get your bore as clean as you can get it without lapping, at least in my opinion. Once clean, try some patched roundballs. Most every TC 1-48 barrel will shoot them well.
 
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Remove the barrel from the stock, remove the nipple, put some warm water in a container, and pump with a tight patch and jag combination.
Yep - excellent advice but START with a 16 ga shotgun brass bristle brush, coat it with Dawn and scrub the barrel up and down with the barrel in the container and make sure the brush is bringing up the hot water with it.

Do this repeatedly and check the brush often to make sure it is coming out of the barrel clean with no barrel debris on it!

Do this outside so you can get aggressive and not worry about water flying around!

Also get two 16 gauge shotgun bore mops so you can scrub the bore after the brass brush treatment with one of them. This will remove any remaining debris and again watch the mop to make sure it comes out clean and white. It should also feel nice and smooth running up and down in the barrel.

When done hose out the barrel thoroughly and if you have a compressor blow out the barrel until no water shows up out of the drum nipple hole.

Wipe the barrel down thoroughly and take a jag and wrap a dry piece of cotton cloth on it and run it down the barrel to pick up any remaining water. If you have a wood stove or other heat source set the barrel near it to get nice and warm and to dry any remaining moisture.

When done screw the 2nd bore mop on your cleaning rod and coat it with oil of your choice (I prefer Rem Oil) and swab the inside of the barrel. Make sure you see oil leaching out of the nipple hole so you know it's getting coated thoroughly.

Overdoing it? I don't think so and I have been doing it this way for a LONG time with no problems!
 
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Phil Coffins

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Indeed, water is the best cleaner in this sport! You appear to have leading so I would strongly advise that you use Wipe-Out. It will remove the leading very well. You won’t need to use it after cleaning the lead out unless the leading returns. SDSmlf advice on cleaning will be all you need normally.
 

Josephg

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Is the barrel fouled with lead, rusted or pitted ?
When accuracy goes away shooting greasesd lead bullets, look for leading first. Wrap #4 steel wool around a tight patch and run it through the bore. If the bore is leaded you will see it on the steel wool. Will not hurt the barrel.

I don't know what a QLA system is and I didn't know they still made Pyrodex. :dunno:
 

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