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Tactical Muzzleloading
- Thread starter jerem0621
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there are only 11 :grin:
That's right - we lost one.
Judas
;-)
Judas
;-)
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:rotf:
The problem I think is you are applying a modern set of parameters on a hypothetical situation..., but you have not extrapolated the WHY that resulted in modern "run and gun" tactics.
Modern, fire and maneuver tactics were developed because the modern firearms exist. They go hand in hand with fixed, smokeless ammunition, and gas or manually operated, magazine fed, firearms. The woodland tactics of the black powder era, sometimes called the skulking way of war didn't arise because folks couldn't figure out "modern" tactics. They arose because that's how one fights with those types of firearms. :wink:
If you want to see how folks conduct tactics with cap-n-ball firearms, it exists today, and it's called Cowboy Action Shooting. :grin:
There are cap-n-ball only competitors in CAS, and all that you would need is a match that only used caplock long guns and cap-n-ball revolvers. Simple.
Now if you are talking about speed loading long guns, you are asking for trouble if you allow novices to compete. I have participated in many speed matches for flintlocks. You have the potential for..., snapping ramrods, poorly seated bullets, and powder cookoffs. If you limit the match to only CW rifled muskets and caplock shotguns with plastic ramrods..., the only problem you omit is breaking off the rods. The rest of the risks are still present.
As for hypothetical events today..., if suddenly say the Constitution was amended and only caplock firearms were allowed and available, you can forget single shot muzzleloading rifles for anything but hunting and maybe long range sniping. You'd probably get some Sharps Caplock Breechloaders as well. What you'd see in a raging, up close and personal shootout would be 1858 Revolving Carbines and a lot of revolvers with detachable stocks, and a lot of revolvers by themselves. You might see some of the revolver-carbines "improved" by making them into .36 caliber guns but with 7 or 8 shot cylinders. You'd also probably have people packing at least a brace of Howdah Pistols, with backup revolvers.
But you don't have to wonder....in short..., Clint Eastwood in The Outlaw Josey Wales pretty much answered your question..., lots of revolvers and a long range rifle if needed.
:thumbsup:
LD
Modern, fire and maneuver tactics were developed because the modern firearms exist. They go hand in hand with fixed, smokeless ammunition, and gas or manually operated, magazine fed, firearms. The woodland tactics of the black powder era, sometimes called the skulking way of war didn't arise because folks couldn't figure out "modern" tactics. They arose because that's how one fights with those types of firearms. :wink:
If you want to see how folks conduct tactics with cap-n-ball firearms, it exists today, and it's called Cowboy Action Shooting. :grin:
There are cap-n-ball only competitors in CAS, and all that you would need is a match that only used caplock long guns and cap-n-ball revolvers. Simple.
Now if you are talking about speed loading long guns, you are asking for trouble if you allow novices to compete. I have participated in many speed matches for flintlocks. You have the potential for..., snapping ramrods, poorly seated bullets, and powder cookoffs. If you limit the match to only CW rifled muskets and caplock shotguns with plastic ramrods..., the only problem you omit is breaking off the rods. The rest of the risks are still present.
As for hypothetical events today..., if suddenly say the Constitution was amended and only caplock firearms were allowed and available, you can forget single shot muzzleloading rifles for anything but hunting and maybe long range sniping. You'd probably get some Sharps Caplock Breechloaders as well. What you'd see in a raging, up close and personal shootout would be 1858 Revolving Carbines and a lot of revolvers with detachable stocks, and a lot of revolvers by themselves. You might see some of the revolver-carbines "improved" by making them into .36 caliber guns but with 7 or 8 shot cylinders. You'd also probably have people packing at least a brace of Howdah Pistols, with backup revolvers.
But you don't have to wonder....in short..., Clint Eastwood in The Outlaw Josey Wales pretty much answered your question..., lots of revolvers and a long range rifle if needed.
:thumbsup:
LD
Last edited by a moderator:
I am not putting anyone down or pointing fingers; but "tactical" is one of those over-used words in our strange culture today.
I have even seen it used in fly-fishing catalogs. I had no idea we were at war with trout!! :grin:
I know I sound like an old curmudgeon (and I likely am) but I saw "tactical" underware in a very popular outdoor catalog and that was it for me. I think that use of this word has gone way too far and is a sales gimmick. To me the word would only apply to warfare the way it is today.
Like I said I am not pointing fingers. If I was I would different "tactics" than this. :v
TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!
I have even seen it used in fly-fishing catalogs. I had no idea we were at war with trout!! :grin:
I know I sound like an old curmudgeon (and I likely am) but I saw "tactical" underware in a very popular outdoor catalog and that was it for me. I think that use of this word has gone way too far and is a sales gimmick. To me the word would only apply to warfare the way it is today.
Like I said I am not pointing fingers. If I was I would different "tactics" than this. :v
TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!
We are in the best trout fishing country enneywar.
The local two-year college mascots are called "The Fighting Trout".
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Using a muzzleloader in for-sure brown bear country will turn you seriously tactical. Dunno about any organized sport and not interested in any case, but I'm enthused about large holes and quick reloads. Practice is the only answer, done from your shooting bag and as far as your legs will carry you from the bench at your range.
I'm unique, just like everyone else. :wink:Geraldo said:
I bet I'm uniquer than you. As far as tactical goes, I wore a tactical T shirt last week deer hunting and it didn"t help a bit. However, my tactical Zippo lit my tactical cigar very efficiently and I followed that with a tactical slug of single malt (very tactical, that stuff). :haha: graybeard
eugenenine
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But did you have one of those assault loading blocks that holds more than 10 balls?
Greg Blackburn
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Jeff Cooper had issue with the use of "tactical," I loved that guy.
Greg
Greg
Many Klatch
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If you are looking at speed loading then you will either need to go to a smoothbore or a minie ball. I can get 3 shots a minute off with my Brown Bess. Four if I start loaded. The only time I do a speed shoot is when we are competing against another team in a post shoot. Fastest team to cut a landscape timber in half wins. Lots of big bores and fast loading.
Read up on Rogers Rangers for period tactics. Don't forget, you only get one shot from cover, the smoke will point out your position. Rogers Rangers fought in two man fire teams. One was always loaded while the other was reloading. That kept the tomahawks out of the scalp.
Many Klatch
Read up on Rogers Rangers for period tactics. Don't forget, you only get one shot from cover, the smoke will point out your position. Rogers Rangers fought in two man fire teams. One was always loaded while the other was reloading. That kept the tomahawks out of the scalp.
Many Klatch
I think you are talking about an IDPA type event for BP revolvers, right? I can just imagine Jerry Miculek speed loading a Remington NMA with a belt load of cylinders and out shooting some guy with a 10-shot Glock.
Or how about Bob Mundon shooting from the hip with a brace of '51 Colt Navy revolvers while his competitor shoots a 1911 race gun with optics?
How about going up against shotgunner Flanigan with your Pedersoli double gun? He takes 9 shots to shoot all nine out of the sky and you fire off both barrels, knocking them all out before they reach apogee.
How are you on point shooting? While common yesterday, it's looked upon as unsafe today. Just about anything is unsafe if you don't practice or know how to do it!
Or how about Bob Mundon shooting from the hip with a brace of '51 Colt Navy revolvers while his competitor shoots a 1911 race gun with optics?
How about going up against shotgunner Flanigan with your Pedersoli double gun? He takes 9 shots to shoot all nine out of the sky and you fire off both barrels, knocking them all out before they reach apogee.
How are you on point shooting? While common yesterday, it's looked upon as unsafe today. Just about anything is unsafe if you don't practice or know how to do it!
