Tactical Muzzleloading

[jerem0621]

Ok, please hear me out.

I love my traditional muzzleloader. I'm a caplock guy, hunter, shooter, etc. I have no interest in modern... stuff... when it comes to Muzzleloaders.

What I am interested in is merging my love for the traditional muzzleloader with some modern tactics.

i.e. mono-sling on my mid-sized caplock muzzleloader. Strapped to body is a Remington .44 caplock revolver with a 4 inch barrel.

I'm interested in studying speedloading my muzzleloading firearms. Firing from cover, transitioning to my Back Up Gun under stress.

Basically, I'd like to set up a modern run and gun course for traditional muzzleloaders....

Am I thinking crazy? Or do you all think that would be something fun?

 

[nkbj]

A brace of pistols, a throwing hawk, a canoe gun and a tactical sniper flintlock. Yah, that would be fun. Just don't blast the pop up of Mingo or Cincinnatus!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Google up "Seneca Run".

 

[jerem0621]

Stumpkiller...

Sounds like Tennessee needs a "Seneca Run"

I'm going to try and get something like this set up, if for nothing, just for me. Maybe a youtube vid to follow.

 

[necchi]

We do that at Rendezvous, it's called woods walk.

Sometime it's NOT a walk,, throw in some knowledge skills of local fauna an critters an toss some archery an fire starting in the mix,,

Tactical ? I always thought that stuff was just a basic skill set.

 

[jerem0621]

I defiantly meant tactics.. not tacti "cool"..

 

[Matt85]

i think the more complicated woods walks meet most of what you called tactical.

-matt

 

[jerem0621]

Thank you all. I'm going to look into these walks.

Have any of you worked on rapid reload drills before? What's the most effective method? 12 apostles and a bullet block?

Thanks!

 

[curator]

Seventeenth century soldiers on both sides of the pond could reload very fast in "tactical" situations. Smooth-bore muskets were in fact designed for tactical reloading using paper cartridges and under-bore sized balls. French and Indian War era riflemen were known to use paper cartridge to first prime, then load the powder charge, and then to "spit" the ball (several carried in their mouth) into the bore. A sharp rap of the butt on the ground seated the ball. There are several accurate historical accounts of this being done by men like Daniel Boone in desperate fighting. This procedure is somewhat dangerous for modern shooters who are not in fear for their lives, and priming before loading will probably get you kicked out of most muzzle loading shoots.

Of course, you could always get a special "Tacky-tickle" relay for shooters with black plastic stocks, Laser sights, and bipods hanging off Picatinny rails.

 

[jerem0621]

Seventeenth century soldiers on both sides of the pond could reload very fast in "tactical" situations. Smooth-bore muskets were in fact designed for tactical reloading using paper cartridges and under-bore sized balls. French and Indian War era riflemen were known to use paper cartridge to first prime, then load the powder charge, and then to "spit" the ball (several carried in their mouth) into the bore. A sharp rap of the butt on the ground seated the ball. There are several accurate historical accounts of this being done by men like Daniel Boone in desperate fighting. This procedure is somewhat dangerous for modern shooters who are not in fear for their lives, and priming before loading will probably get you kicked out of most muzzle loading shoots.

Of course, you could always get a special "Tacky-tickle" relay for shooters with black plastic stocks, Laser sights, and bipods hanging off Picatinny rails.

Nice! I'm not interested in all that tacti-cool stuff. Especially on my ml. I'm also not going to be spitting balls. But I may develop some kind of ball dispenser that can be hung around the neck.

Thanks again

 

[Stumpkiller]

Thank you all. I'm going to look into these walks.

Have any of you worked on rapid reload drills before? What's the most effective method? 12 apostles and a bullet block?

Thanks!

Have you ever seen anyone run wearing the 12 Apostles?

I find a five to seven shot ball block in a sheath on the back of the bag and a smaller one on the horn strap (three shot) with a measure on the horn neck is the handiest. Carry the bag and horn high enough that you can hold them in place with your elbow when moving. Pre-measured flasks mean you have to fish them out and then store the empties somewhere they don't get confused with the full ones.

Get a smoothbore and load paper cartridges if you want real speed. Six mostly aimed shots a minute if you are good at it.

Some events do not allow ball blocks and you must "load from the bag". In this case loose balls and a strip of patch material pulled out and held on your tongue as you fish out the ball upon arriving at stations is the best.

 

[cynthialee]

What is 12 apostles?
(no smart alek Jesus's friends jokes please...)


Seeing a pack of guys loaded down with old time weapons and runing a tactical course would be a neat thing to watch.

 

[Stumpkiller]

The "12 Apostles" are wood bottles suspended from a bandolier as worn by Musketeers (as in "The Three . . . ")

When you're lugging a 15 pound matchlock you're likely not setting and land speed records, anyway.


Semi-locally we have a Muzzleloader Biathlon that is run and fired on snowshoes. That one is pretty fun to watch as well.

 

[cynthialee]

The Musketeers only had twelve shots of powder as an issue?

 

[Rev_William]

Thats why they caried a sword as back up lol

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sounds like Tennessee needs a "Seneca Run"

Methinks the runs, like Simon Kenton run, Seneca run, etc. are losing popularity. Reason, many of the devoted ml'ers and rendezvous types are simply too old to run anymore.
Plus, rapid reloading a rifle isn't easy and can be dangerous. I broke a ramrod on a Kenton run and that started my obsession with having a lot of rods, most of which are not breakable.
Also, running with mocs, especially on wet grass or mud is something you have to experience to hate as much as I do. :shocked2:
To learn more about tatical ml shooting, read about the Rev. Riflemen, Rangers, etc.
I met an active duty Special Ops solider last week. He told me part of the training for SO guys requires reading about Rogers Rangers and their tactics.

 

[jerem0621]

I'm thinking about a different philosophy of useage with the traditional muzzleloader. I.e. if all we had availabe today were cap locks and revolvers how would we use our weapons?

This is what I would like to explore.

I have a deep commitment to the traditional side lock but I am open to more modern philosophies. Do you think something like this could create interest in the younger crowd?

Thanks!

 

[TennesseeJed]

Stumpkiller...

Sounds like Tennessee needs a "Seneca Run"

I'm going to try and get something like this set up, if for nothing, just for me. Maybe a youtube vid to follow.

Yes, we do need a Seneca Run, more over-the-log matches, maybe a rendezvous. Anything that can promote traditional muzzleloaders.

 

[Geraldo]

Having been on SWAT and shot IPSC, IDPA, and 3-Gun for fun, I'm not seeing the correlation between any of that and what I do with BP firearms other than in a very broad sense.

Using cover in a fight? Sure, everybody hides behind something on the two way range. Transition to handgun? I'm sure the Rangers did a fair approximation switching to their Colts after they fired their rifles. You could do the classic Bill Drill or a glacial El Prez, but it's more fun to shoot Wild Bill style.

In thinking about it, I've seen guys shoot Iron Man class in 3 Gun with a Garand and all you really get is lower scores and more tired carrying a heavier rifle and ammo. Using BP fire arms would add glacial reloads to the mix, but not much else. As others said, embrace the woods walk or Seneca run and leave the Delta Drills to the black rifle crowd.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yes, we do need a Seneca Run

Yep, go ahead and have that run in Tennessee. Ye gots lots of slickery black mud there. Have fun with yer slick soled moccasins on that slickery black mud. Loading an ml while layin' on yer gut with yer face in the black mud should make for a challenging event. Enjoy. :rotf: