T/C renegade .54

[scooter3844]

Have a T/C Renegade that shoots .430 gr. Maxi balls great. When I try to shoot PRB it shoots terrible. drops over a foot at 25 yds. I'm using the same amount of FFG powder. 60 grains FFG and 430 grain maxi ball. Not 100% sure what grain round ball I'm using. So should I increase the powder charge for round ball, play with the patch thickness or say to heck with it all and just shoot the Maxi ball?

 

[Walkingeagle]

A foot low is fine and can be adjusted, but what are the groups like?
What size round ball are you using?
What size patch?
What patch material and lube?
What brand of 2fg powder?
I assume this is a percussion rifle.
Once we have this info then we can help.
Walk

 

[Pete G]

The ball is not dropping; it is recoiling less and spending less time in the bore, both cause the rifle to shoot lower.

 

[Des52]

Try upping the powder by 5 grains at a time. My Renegade shoots roundballs just fine with a load of 90 grains of 2f. You just have to find the sweet spot of powder your gun likes. It also likes a thicker patch, I think I use a .20 thick patch with a .530 ball.

 

[SDSmlf]

Have a T/C Renegade that shoots .430 gr. Maxi balls great. When I try to shoot PRB it shoots terrible. drops over a foot at 25 yds. I'm using the same amount of FFG powder. 60 grains FFG and 430 grain maxi ball. Not 100% sure what grain round ball I'm using. So should I increase the powder charge for round ball, play with the patch thickness or say to heck with it all and just shoot the Maxi ball?

At 25 yards everything should be hitting pretty much in the same ragged hole unless something is way wrong, maybe an undersized ball or way too thin of a patch. I can use patched round balls (I use a reduced charge) in my fast twist conical guns for practice out to 50 yards and find myself hitting no more than an inch or two lower if I go down to 30 or 40 grains of powder.

 

[bubba.50]

With 70gr powder behind a roundball and 90gr behind a maxi-ball my 54 Renegade would shoot cloverleaf groups all day and at 75 yards shot to the exact same point of impact.

 

[SDSmlf]

The ball is not dropping; it is recoiling less and spending less time in the bore, both cause the rifle to shoot lower.

Only really find this significant in handguns that tend to flip in your hand more easily when fired, say going from a 44 mag to a 44 special load in the same handgun, the slower 44 special slug will hit higher to a certain distance, but I just do not see it in muzzleloading rifles. I shoot a lot of reduced loads for practice at shorter distances (25-50 yards) as I have a bum shoulder that acts up a few times a year, and find little change in elevation POI no matter the projectile or powder charge out to 50 yards, especially a foot change at 25 yards as mentioned by in the OP.

 

[scooter3844]

Have a T/C Renegade that shoots .430 gr. Maxi balls great. When I try to shoot PRB it shoots terrible. drops over a foot at 25 yds. I'm using the same amount of FFG powder. 60 grains FFG and 430 grain maxi ball. Not 100% sure what grain round ball I'm using. So should I increase the powder charge for round ball, play with the patch thickness or say to heck with it all and just shoot the Maxi ball?

I'm sorry I'm using FFFG not FFG.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Have a T/C Renegade that shoots .430 gr. Maxi balls great. When I try to shoot PRB it shoots terrible. drops over a foot at 25 yds. I'm using the same amount of FFG powder. 60 grains FFG and 430 grain maxi ball. Not 100% sure what grain round ball I'm using. So should I increase the powder charge for round ball, play with the patch thickness or say to heck with it all and just shoot the Maxi ball?

Are you shooting offhand or from a bench?

If you are shooting offhand, then the difference in elevation on the target is likely due to recoil. The recoil with the maxi-ball is lifting the muzzle (perhaps due to an unrecognized flinch). The recoil with the round ball is far more manageable and the muzzle is not lifting. What is the group size at 25 yards? Both for the maxi ball and the round ball?

 

[scooter3844]

Are you shooting offhand or from a bench?

If you are shooting offhand, then the difference in elevation on the target is likely due to recoil. The recoil with the maxi-ball is lifting the muzzle (perhaps due to an unrecognized flinch). The recoil with the round ball is far more manageable and the muzzle is not lifting. What is the group size at 25 yards? Both for the maxi ball and the round ball?

With the maxi-ball its about a 3 inch group. With the roundball its kinda all over the place. I think i need a thicker patch. I'm using .530 Hornady RB. I wanted to use it during the Indiana muzzleloader season but I think I'm gonna have to wait until next year now. Just too much going on. I am shooting off hand, well using rest but not in a sled or anything like that.

 

[Grenadier1758]

What's your patch thickness? That shallow rifling in a T/C rifle requires some experimentation to get round ball to be accurate on target. We are talking about a tight ball and patch combination with a somewhat dry patch lube. I use a mix of one part Water soluble oil (Ballistol) to 7 parts of water. The patch is just damp, not sopping wet. You need to try patches from JoAnn's Drill Cloth, 0.018" thick. Its in the utility cloth section. The patch material needs to be washed to remove the sizing applied by the manufacturer.

You most likely have a bore windage of 0.005" and a groove depth of 0.004". You need a patch that will fill the grooves and force a rifling imprint on your ball. A 0.010" patch just won't do that and you get gas blow by and poor accuracy. the drill cloth will compress to the 0.009" thickness and engrave the ball to the rifling. Yes, you need a short starter to load a 0.530" ball and 0.018" patching, but it is what you need to get on target accuracy with a round ball in a T/C rifle.

 

[renegadehunter]

I also wonder what patch thickness you're using?
I have a .54 Renegade too.
My groups really tightened up when I went from .015" patches to .018" pillow ticking patches. With a .530 RB.
It is also very picky about lube quantity, it likes barely enough on the patch to just coat the entire thing to the edges. Mink oil from Track of the Wolf has given me the best groups to date, although an olive oil / bees wax mix I made works pretty good too. I apply the lube to each patch by hand by just swiping the patch across the lube in a tin and then rubbing it in with my thumbs. Make sure it is clear out to the edges, but use barely enough lube to do so.
Light lube and an .018" patch requires a very firm smack on a short starter to get started, and pushing it down the bore in short 6"-8" strokes on the ram rod, but groups are too much improved to ignore the effort needed.
My Renegade shot patched round ball very poorly with 60 grains of 3f too. Groups really tightened up between 75-80 grains for me.
Mine also loves a barely fouled barrel. I can get two shots without swabbing before groups open up pretty drastically. Knowing that, plus the tight fitting PRB combo, has me just swabbing every shot, one pass down and back with a damp swab patch and then one pass with a dry. If at the range and firing again right away I often don't bother with a dry swab.

 

[Danny Ross]

My buddy's boy (he is 39 now), his Renegade shoots lights out with 90grs 2F Black Powder (3F not so much), lightly lubed pillow ticking patch using Bore Butter for the lube. He use to shoot Pyrodex RS Select 90 grs, was NEVER consistent using it. When he switched to real black powder (after letting him try mine) that gun was a brand new animal. Almost sorry I sold it to him , but I had never shot it to know what it did. To many toys and he needed one. DANNY