T/C Hawken Flint Life

[PaulTBarton]

OK, newbie here, 4th time out today and I'm getting about 25 shots per flint. Flints seem to be dark probably English. I picked up a bag of amber French and also have black English ones too.

The fellow I purchased the French ones showed me one he took out after 80 shots, looked new to me. On mine, the used front ends look like the back end of a new flint smashed with a hammer until really dull.

What kind of flint life should I expect with this rifle (seeings that it is a T/C lock)?

Newbie, :idunno:
Paul aka IdeZilla.

 

[curator]

Setting a flint to get good sparking and long life is a bit of a art from combined with a little intuition and lots of experience. If your T/C is one of the older ones that did not get the cock upgrade, you'll have your work cut out for you as the angle of the jaws is not the best. For a flint to do its job correctly it must scrape down the frizzen face, not smash into it. Adjusting the angle of the flint so this happens and having it contact the frizzen face at least 2/3rds of its length above the pan is what it takes. Of course, every flint is a little bit different so you have to fit and shim to get it just right. Towards this end, I use lead roofing-sheeting to both hold and shim my flints. It is easy to cut off a thin strip of lead to prop the back end of the flint up or down to get a better angle. Small shims behind can make it a little longer. Lead sheet needs to be tightened more than leather and checked again after three or four strikes as it conforms to the contours of the flint. Once set, it does hold the flint a bit more securely and gives better sparking (my opinion)

 

[Tom Compton]

No way to predict flint life.

There r ways to improve flint life but w/o seeing different size flints mounted in the cock in different orientations and relation to the frizzen.... well just tough.

My first guess is the flints are too long and or they are in the jaws w the bevel down. Another thing to try is to cut out th back of the flint leather so the flint can be 1/4" further back in the jaws. All of these change the geometry.

Try to find an experienced flint shooter to look at your setup. I can't see the pics on photobucket And don't care to mess with them. If you PM your email I'll be glad to look at pics that way.
Good Luck
TC

 

[don hepler]

My TC is an early four digit serial number. I offered to buy a newer style lock from TC, but they said, just to send it back and they would replace it. I sent them my old lock and they sent me a new one. The geometry is different between the two locks, and the frizzen is different. The early frizzens had the case hardened look, while the newer ones are solid black.

As far as flint life, I really don't know, because I usually shoot my custom rifle. I have never tracked flint life, but perhaps I should. After all the money I've spent on a custom rifles, and other guns, I guess the flint cost never came into question. Around here flints are about three dollars each, which is something to consider.

 

[Swede50]

Roundball one of the members has pictures of the different TC flint locks and describes the differences in the way they are shaped try a forum search.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

To get consistent sparking and long flint life, you need to make sure your flint strikes the frizzen at a 55° to 60° angle. This will generate great sparks and will self-knap the flint so it doesn't end up looking like the back of the flint.

If your flint hits the frizzen at too abrupt of an angle, say 45° or less, you will crush the tip of the flint quickly and get few sparks out of it. If you go beyond that 55° to 60° angle it will slap the top of the flint against the frizzen and break large chunks off the bottom of the flint. This is what is commonly referred to as the "Goldilocks" effect - not too little, not too much, just right! So set it either bevel up or bevel down, move it forward or move it back; do whatever it takes to get that angle and you will get long flint life and lots-o-sparks.

Don't worry too much about getting the flint to hit 2/3 of the way up. If you hit 2/3 of the way up at the wrong angle, you'll crush the tips. A lot of where the flint hits depends on the Geometry of the lock, cock, and frizzen. The newer version of the TC lock is much better than the old one. In any case, just be sure you get that angle and you will be rewarded with good performance.

Twisted_1in66
Dan :thumbsup:

 

[PaulTBarton]

Great info, thanks! What I was wanting to learn about. 55 to 60 degrees it is.

Paul :wink:

 

[hanshi]

And knapping usually doubles the flint life.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Good news with getting the angle right is that the flint is virtually self-knapping. I almost never have to knap my flint. But Hanshi is right, if your flint gets dull, knapping it will extend the life of that flint.

Twisted_1in66:thumbsup:
Dan

 

[PaulTBarton]

Good news with getting the angle right is that the flint is virtually self-knapping. I almost never have to knap my flint. But Hanshi is right, if your flint gets dull, knapping it will extend the life of that flint.

Twisted_1in66:thumbsup:
Dan

OK, I installed a new flint bevel down with a thick piece of leather under the flint to raise it up about 3/32 inch (just under 1/8 inch). Then measured the angle across the top of the flint flat to the frizzen face and came up with 55 degrees.

Lets hope that this "work-around" functions.

Paul

 

[Tom Compton]

Hoping that works for you Paul. I certainly think it will help. The pad of leather under the flint raising it in the jaws an eighth inch is similar to a longer flint.

Was that 55* with the lock at half cock and with the flint just touching the frizzen? Changing the flint length will change the geometry (flint/frizzen angle) some. I have one lock that I use longer than "Normal" flints OR I put a twig between the flint leather and the jaw screw when I don't have the long ones.

Learning your lock and operating it properly is part of the "flintlock experience".
TC

 

[PaulTBarton]

Measured or calculated with cock at half, flint about 1/16 inch away from frizzen (not shown here). It's a rough guess but helped me to see how close the angles were.

 

[Tom Compton]

Oh yea. Big improvement.
TC

 

[Twisted_1in66]

That 55° to 60° is what the angle should be as it contacts the frizzen. That will make that self-knapping scrape down frizzen with lots-o-sparks. :grin:

Twisted_1in66:thumbsup:
Dan

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Well it looks night and day better. That should do the trick. Let us know how it goes.

Twisted_1in66:thumbsup:
Dan

 

[PaulTBarton]

Lock pictures above, Mine is the old one, the new one is not mine but what I could look for.

Oct/22/2015 On-Going Range Reports

Flint Life: I picked a (given to me) used French flint that had 80+ shots on it, barely worn. It lasted about 30 shots in my flinter. That L/R lock is starting to look like I should be saving some bread/butter change to get it.

12 x 18 inch target, 25 yards, 0.440 RB, Tick patch, Schuetzen FFFg main and prime.

First three shots were the wild ones around the center.

Then slowly walked the shots up and to the left ending above the center.

Last shots were the head shots (~6 or so), finally shooting higher that the POA.

That darn rear sight elevation screw kept moving (again) and needs a really strong elevation spring to keep the screw from moving. Or maybe some paper tape

I was having trouble with that patent breech and the brand of powder being a bit dirty. I used a .30 caliber brass brush to help in cleaning out that breech pocket. Helped save the day.

If after a pan flash but no boom, I would trickle powder into the pan and tilt the rifle to the left to tap some through the touch hole, trying to get some more powder behind the main charge. Then refill and level the pan and shoot. This worked every time for this rifle.

A fun day, Paul

 

[PaulTBarton]

Yowza, I just ordered the NEWER hammer for this flinter on ebay. Should be here soon (I hope).

Paul

 

[PaulTBarton]

Installed new hammer/cock. French flint life is still poorly at about 25 shots. I used the original frizzen which is a bit soft and the flint was gouging. Looks like the 2nd frizzen will get re-installed. News later after next outing.

BartSr

P.S.

25 yards (was resighting again), Goex FFFg 50grs, .440 hand-poured RBs, blue tick patches. Wild shots were first, after I calmed down the shots got better.
Was shooting with Adui.

 

[PaulTBarton]

Today I tried to re-line my original frizzen. Cut a piece of 1/32 inch thick spring steel to fit the frizzen face and tinned both pieces with silver bearing (3%) soft solder and put them together. After grinding the edges down to look nice, I tried it. No sparks at all, bummer. So I put the replacement frizzen back in place. :td:

bummed, BartSr

 

[Scota4570]

Case harden the frizzen face.