Swiss 3F in .50 cal rifles

[Thekingd93]

I have a Thompson Center Renegade and a hawken both .50 cal, the Renegade has a 1:66 round ball twist and the hawken is 1:48. Swiss 3F works well in the Renegade barrel nice groups at 50 yards. Seems like it works well in then Hawken barrel as well but im curious about maximum load considering 3F burns faster as more geared towards pistols. 70 grains seems to be the ticket for now. Any information on how the different twist rates for each barrel could possibly influence which powder 3F or 2F is better suited.

 

[Grenadier1758]

It's the groove diameter that will have more effect on determining which granulation of your powder will have the most effect.

The shallow grooves of the 1 in 48 Hawken may perform better with a lesser charge of 3f and a tight fitting bal and patch than the, most likely, aftermarket barrel with the 1 in 60 twist. I will guess that the barrel on the Renegade has deeper grooves.

 

[Bad Karma]

Test and retest to see which will work best. Grenadier has laid out some general rules of thumb but in the end you often don’t know until it’s been tried and tested.

 

[Mad Professor]

It's the groove diameter that will have more effect on determining which granulation of your powder will have the most effect.

The shallow grooves of the 1 in 48 Hawken may perform better with a lesser charge of 3f and a tight fitting bal and patch than the, most likely, aftermarket barrel with the 1 in 60 twist. I will guess that the barrel on the Renegade has deeper grooves.

The 1-66 barrel is deep groove TC barrel. I've got one in 54 cal

 

[Thekingd93]

The 1-66 barrel is deep groove TC barrel. I've got one in 54 cal

I wish the barrels were interchangeable but the renegade is 1 inch and the hawken is 15/16ths the hawken stock fits me better and I shoot mostly just patched round ball

 

[tenngun]

Your barrel will more then handle charges above TC recs.
Long before you approach a truely maximum charge your accuracy will decrease to the point that you shoot like a smooth bore.
I would try 70 grains Swiss in a .50 tc, as it’s hotter the GO, and the .50 test were done on 2f. I would bet you would start opening groups up at 85. And the difference in down range performance won’t make no never mind to Bambi.

 

[Mad Professor]

TC lists 110gr FFg as max load for 50 cal w/PRB

 

[Historian]

3Fg is absolutely fine and is safe to load and shoot in a .50 cal rifle. I shoot 3Fg in 20 gauges all day long as do many others. I also shoot it in my TC Hawken which is .45 cal with no problems. I always go for the Optimum Load and not Max Load.

 

[deermanok]

3f powder is all I use these days. I have Swiss and Old Ensyford powder.
One of my rifles is an old CVA mountain stalker, 70 grains by volume of the Old Ensyford under a Hornady PA conical seems to be the best combination for that rifle.
Another rifle I have seems to like 70 grains of Swiss 3f and a patched ball better.

 

[GANGGREEN]

3f powder is all I use these days. I have Swiss and Old Ensyford powder.
One of my rifles is an old CVA mountain stalker, 70 grains by volume of the Old Ensyford under a Hornady PA conical seems to be the best combination for that rifle.
Another rifle I have seems to like 70 grains of Swiss 3f and a patched ball better.

Like you, I had pretty much stopped using FFg powder and had been using FFFg in all of my flintlocks from .36-.54 (still used FFg in my .62 fowler though). I purchased some antique FFg from a guy and just wanted to burn it up and I've been getting really consistent accuracy with it. I shot my .50 flintlock Isaac Haines rifle yesterday with that vintage FFg and got what I think was a 1-1.5" 5-shot group at 50 yards from the bench (I was just goofing around while a friend sighted in a new rifle, so I didn't really measure my groups). I also just purchased a bulk order of powder which included several pounds of Old Eynsford FFFg and two pounds of OE FFg and I intend to use it some too. Maybe I was a bit too hasty to stop shooting it entirely, but in response to the original poster, yeah, 3F Swiss should be fine in either of your rifles and you'll have to experiment for the best load with it.

 

[hanshi]

I use 3F Goex/Graf's almost exclusively in everything. I do have a little Swiss 3F and like it in my .32.

 

[hunter thompson]

3FFF is a lil faster and better BUT if i couldnt get any 3fff and all i had was 2ff i would up 10 grains and be right back to where you were with 3fff. This is all for match shooting and keeping the most tightest group..As far as hunting it dont matter if your off 1/2 inch in different velocitys.Differnt manufactures will be different groups with both 3fff,s or if you use 2ff. GET IT ZERO.ED AND STAY THE SAME THING .AND SAME PRESSURE LOADING and same stance. Dont try to fix something thats not broken after you get it so you cant miss.Leave it SAME EVERYTHING.

 

[Stony Broke]

I gave up years ago and just 3f in everything....but I don't try for max loads in anything. I have a variety of calibers, but even in my .62 with a rifled bore, the same powder does just fine.

 

[CapnRon]

I have a Thompson Center Renegade and a hawken both .50 cal, the Renegade has a 1:66 round ball twist and the hawken is 1:48. Swiss 3F works well in the Renegade barrel nice groups at 50 yards. Seems like it works well in then Hawken barrel as well but im curious about maximum load considering 3F burns faster as more geared towards pistols. 70 grains seems to be the ticket for now. Any information on how the different twist rates for each barrel could possibly influence which powder 3F or 2F is better suited.

Conventional wisdom says that a .50 cal should use FF. That said, I have been shooting FFF in my rifles for decades without any apparent issue.

 

[dave951]

3f is not geared towards pistols.

3f is fine in any of the guns you've mentioned. As to whether it's more accurate or not, only testing will prove it. In my guns, 3f is better across the board and one is a 69cal musket. Find an accurate loading and enjoy.

 

[tc45dave]

I just finished shooting the NMLRA Postal Match with my .50 Investarms Hawken. I used 60 grs of Olde Eynsford 3f at 25 and 50 yards, then 70 grs at 100 yards. I have some 2f but am only using 3f for now. I use a .018" ticking patch and musket caps. I need more range time to get better groups. The bear target at 100 yards is very challenging.

 

[Gooddaytoya!]

With these high three FFG loads in 50 plus caliber rifles, what about overpressure? Does anybody ever mic the breach end of their barrels to check for swelling?

 

[Gooddaytoya!]

With these high three FFG loads in 50 plus caliber rifles, what about overpressure? Does anybody ever mic the breach end of their barrels to check for swelling?

I meant "FFFg".

 

[UndeadPoet]

“Newb-ish” question, but is the performance difference between black powder brands in the same size (eg “fffg” to “fffg”) due to quality? ingredients? or type of charcoal wood, etc.? You would think there would be standards which have to be met (although I suppose they could be different country to country). If it is none of the above, then what exactly is it?

Thanks!

‘Poet

 

[Britsmoothy]

With these high three FFG loads in 50 plus caliber rifles, what about overpressure? Does anybody ever mic the breach end of their barrels to check for swelling?

How do you get to much pressure in a muzzloader when it has a vented breech?
Would there be warning information on the powder cans if one could shall we say, excessively charge a barrel?
This is how myths start, then becomes lore and yet has no basis in fact. Just like 4f is now considered to dangerous for anything other than pan powder!