Steel shot

[Joe Sullivan]

I did a little work with steel shot today. It was raining but it was warm t-shirt weather. My favorate place to shoot is a field at the end of a long dirt road owner by a friend/ winter employer of mine. I cut and burn blowover trees and clear his fire roads.

Their's a granite ledge to the right I use as a backstop when I shoot my .308 but for handgun and this stuff I generally just fire low and let the woods stop it all.

My target at 35 paces.

Hatchback subaru are great for keeping things dry.

Here's my load- Daisy BB's, 53 count, 280 grain. 70 grain ff by weight. Remington 12 guage power piston wads. I seated the wad on top of the powder then poured in the shot, then a .5 fiber wad diped in bees wax/ olive oil.

23 of the 53 hit. most were to the left of center, probably my fault. I forgot it's a flintlock. I shot the same target again and counted 39 bb's and the pattern was down at the 6 o'clock. I need more work with steel shot but it is interesting.

Shot 2 balls while I was there. The one to the right was my first. Forgot it's a flintlock :shake: The second I followed thru with. I was resting the rifle, both shots.

I love shooting on Sunday because I can think about the shoot and what I should try next as I'm working thru the week. Thanks everyone.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I did a little work with steel shot today. ... Here's my load- Daisy BB's, 53 count, 280 grain. 70 grain ff by weight. Remington 12 guage power piston wads. I seated the wad on top of the powder then poured in the shot, then a .5 fiber wad diped in bees wax/ olive oil.

Hi, W.R.
Sounds like your'e off to a fun start. A couple of thoughts occur to me.
- Be careful with the BBs - "steel" shot is annealed pure iron and is notably softer than air-gun BBs, although still too hard to shoot bare. I can't recall - is this an 11ga Bess? Make sure there's no chance of any pellets getting out of the shotcup, or even squeezing between the petals.
- 280gr is about 5/8oz and 70gr is about 2.5dr, so you're probably pushing 1300fps with that load.
- 35yds is a long range for that light a charge in an unchoked barrel.
- Your pattern might be better with a thinner/lighter wad over the shot. In a single-barrel gun, even something as thin as milk-carton material works. I'd put the cushion wad under the shotcup to prevent the powder gasses from melting the plastic - B.P. tends to do that. If the 1/2" cushion wads are all you have right now, you might split some into 1/3 or 1/4 for over-shot use (dry). You might also try cutting off the gas seal & cushion from the Power Pistons and rely on the over-powder wads for the seal. Some folks have reported getting oblong patterns from the shotcup apparently tipping; this stopped when they cut away the cushion & seal.

Please keep us updated on how things go.

Regards,
Joel

 

[flintlock75]

I am surprised that the BBs are working and putting any sort of pattern. I tried a load like this 20 years ago and did not get good results. I shot several rabbits with this combo and they ran off after being hit, the range was under 25 yards. I finnished them off with lead after tracking them down. When i skinned them most of the BBs were just under the skin and only a couple hit the vitals. That was the last time i used steel shot for hunting. I have found that There is a big difference between Airgun BBs and Steel Shot for hunting, BBs are made of cheap pot metal and vary in weight. Steel Shot is a higher grade denser steel that is more consistant in weight. I am glad you are having fun with your Bess. One method of checking if a load has sufficent power is to Shoot a soda can at hunting range, if the pellets go through both sides the can then it should work for small game. I would use lead shot for small game and save the steel shot for waterfowl. Good luck.

 

[roundball]

"...checking if a load has sufficent power is to Shoot a soda can at hunting range..."

Was wondering if you really meant to say 'soda cans'...all the soda can I've seen are just flimsy aluminum you can push a pencil through.

But I have used strong metal tuna cans, soup cans, etc, for penetration tests and they seem to work pretty well...I test a load at 5 yard increments until I reach a yardage where they stop penetrating, and then know that my max distance is 5 yards less

 

[Joe Sullivan]

My muskets a new 1728 French infantry 14 ga. but the bore measures .699 and the shot cups are .705. Theres a interferance fit. I did'nt know what BB's were made of. I thought that if they where'nt above the top of the cup I'd be o.k. but your points are valid. I'm not getting enough shot in the cup to make it worth hunting with. I'd need twice the load to get good coverage. I read another thread about new non-toxic shot called ITX and was looking at the web site Balistic products. It's not cheap but they say it's barrel frendly.

ITXâ„¢ Original-10: This pellet is now manufactured to a target density of 10.0 grams/cc. It is a pellet hard enough to maintain superior patterning and penetration, yet softer than any barrel steel. Original-10 is ideal for any shooter concerned with shooting non-toxic through their barrels, including double-gun shooters and small-bore shooters.

Two 1# boxes would be $46. That would last me a year. Have you guy's do any work with this stuff?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Genrally, the plastic shotcups made for cartridges will be ONE GAUGE smaller than the size "gauge: of the shotgun shell. For instance, a 12 ga. hull will use a shotcup that is actually 13 ga.; a 20 gauge shotshell will actually use a 21 ga. wad or cup.

This is different, and the opposite!, from what we choose when buying wads for MLer smoothbores.

In my 20 gauge fowler, I am using 19 gauge wads; in my 12 ga. shotgun, I use 11 gauge wads.

If you want to try to use the heavy gauge plastic shot cups with those non-toxic pellets, like the ITX, Then ask ballistics products what size they recommend for you particular bore diameter.

I would recommend using an OP wad designed to be at least .010" larger in diameter than your bore diameter, to act as a gas seal, and firewall, placed between the powder charge, and any plastic cup.

As you bore is .699" in caliber( diameter), that is close to the nominal 14 gauge size( .693") I would order some 13 gauge OP wads( .710" diameter) to give a good seal to the bore. Then, order 14(.693"),15(.677"),0r 16(.662") gauge plastic cups, ( whichever might be available. As luie has done, cut the back section of those cups off, if using the standard cups provided in commercial Shotgun shells. The strong, BProducts cups have just a bottomed cylinder with slits, so you can cut the cups to the length you need for the load you use. There is no tail to those cups, like you find in the commercial shells.

You probably won't be able to buy 14, 15, and possibly even 16 gauge plastic shotcups for this work, however. That is one of the reasons the members here have been testing out shotcups made with thick fabric strips, like mattress ticking, pocket drill,denim, or muslin. YOu can get OP wads, and both cushion wads, and Over shot cards in all gauge sizes- as Circle Fly makes those wads and cards in all the gauges.

When you throw in the additional problem of muzzle choked barrels, then the use of plastic shotcups becomes near an impossibility. The constriction of the choke at the muzzle makes it nearly impossible to push a plastic shotcup down in to the barrel, unless its way undersized. :hmm: :thumbsup: This is what motivated members here to test the fabric strip shotcups, in their choked barrels. Some promising results have been reported here as more testing goes on. :hatsoff:

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Right now BPI likes ITX shot, and it should be safe for your barrel (a lot safer than Daisy BB's at any rate). Bismuth Shot and Nice Shot will also work.

I haven't come across a workable plastic 14 gauge wad, but I haven't really tried either. Paul is quite right that commercial wads are undersized. But, this varies somewhat. BPI wads are have a larger gas seal diameter than any others that I've measured (and it is posted for each of their wads on the web sight).

Traditional loads work quite well out to a point, and I would at least experiment with them. You could also try the pillow ticking cups if you want.

 

[Joe Sullivan]

Failed steel shot experiment #2;
Got my #3 steel shot and shot cups in and tried to load up. shot cup o.d. is larger than advertised at .710, Actual outside dia. .718-.720. Almost destroyed ramrod seating the first cup. Fired ok, descent pattern at 30 paces. The wad stuck into pizza box. Over powder card, plastic wad slit twice 180 apart, shot, over shot card and lubed .5 wad.
Attempt #2. Sanded 10 wads o.d. down to .705-.710 dia. and tried to load and it was still way to tight. Slit the wad 4 places 90 apart. I thought these wads were going to be a little softer than they are. I'm going to sand on the o.d.'s more tomorrow and see if I can get them to fit.
Im thinking of firing the steel shot as though it was lead and forget the wad. Theres no restriction in the barrel. whats the worst that can happen?

 

[RwBeV]

PLEASE don't tell me you are using lead shot cups with steel shot!!!!! I have been playing this steel shot thing since before we where forced to use non-toxic shot in the mid 80's. Another no no is air rifle shot it is harder than steel shot for shotguns. Back in mid 80's a fellow named Tom Roster did alot of work with ML shotguns and steel shot. The main thing he found out was that you need to use wads designed for steel. I found the same thing I almost ruined a nice barrel using lead wads. Some where around here I still have his report, its old but still good reading for someone that wants to shot steel in his front stuffer.

Over the years this is what I found, I use Sam1 wads I use an unslit wad as a powder measure, I start with .125 over powder wad, then steel shot wad then the shot be careful that you do not over fill the wad, then one over shot wad. It takes heavy charges of powder to get steel shot going fast enough to make clean kills. Different shot sizes will pattern different so you spend lots of time at the pattern range. I had a Navy Arms double 12ga jug choked just so that I could still hunt water fowl with a ML. Lite gun + heavy charges = pain. As of now I still have a small amount of Bismuth but when it runs out I'm back to shooting steel again. I have talked with folks that are using ITX in ML's and having good luck but its out of my price range.

If you want to take a look at Tom Rosters report I will dig it out, let me know.

Bob

 

[Joe Sullivan]

Hey Bob; These cup are for steel, from Balistic products. I did try the lead cups and bb's just to get my feet wet but I'm beond that now .
My bore measures .699 at the muzzle and about 10" up from the breech the bore is larger. I can't tell for sure but judging by the feel of pushing my overpowder wad (.710) down to the bottom, is something like .705-.708 so the barrels not all that good in the first place.
I did a google search for "shooting steel out of a cylinder bore shotgun" and found some interesting stuff. Tests shooting 1000 rounds using old shotguns with Imp. cyl. and mod. chokes and no ill effects.
Tom Rosters report sounds like good reading but if it's something that you have to type out, don't go thru the hastle. I'm going to try sanding these wads a little more or I had an idea of making a hot mandrel and draw them thru to melt .018 material off them. I might try loading up like it was lead and forget about the wad. whats the worst that can happen- theres no choke.

 

[RwBeV]

You have stumbled onto a problem that I had when I was trying load steel. Not all steel wads are the same dia. See if you can find other steel wads to try there are lots of them now. You might try and see if Balistic Products will send you a sample wad other wise it might get expensive. I can send you some of what I use. I even found that wads from the same company did not always work, when I started the only wads I could find where from NTC they are long out of business, their 3" wad would fit my gun their 2 3/4" would not. Let me know if you want to try some of the wads that I have, as far as that report.... Type???? I have a scaner!! Now as soon as I can get the grandkids to show me how to use it......

Bob

 

[LeeinVA]

This is good information.. I too shall be experimenting shortly, but i think i shall have an easier time with the steel shot cups as my i.d. is .755.. But who knows :hmm:

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I might try loading up like it was lead and forget about the wad. whats the worst that can happen- theres no choke.

You could, and likely would, scratch, score, or eventually gouge your bore. It's a somewhat separate issue from peening a choke. The hardness of the "steel" shot is not much less than that of your barrel, depending on the barrel alloy and treatment, and it's in a compact aggregate that will be wedging shot sideways with acceleration, pressing against the bore wall, not just sliding past it.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Joe Sullivan]

Success! Let me show you how I did it. :wink: Bought a 5/8 dia wood dowel and cut up some shopping bag.
somewhere around 8" wide and I rolled it up on the dowel tight and square. I rolled and measured untill I got to .695 dia and cut it off at that length, unrolled it and measured it flat and that was 8" long. I rolled it up again 1 full turn then with a cheap sponge paint brush I brushed on elmers glue then rolled it all the way up tightly. I made 4 tubes and let them dry.
I cut them to length by trial and error and stuck them in my 6 star crimp station on my 12 gauge reloader.

Started the crimp and slid it back on the dowel to flaten the crimp nice. The first one I made I epoxyed by poring a thimble size portion in and let it stand but it's overkill. I superglued the crimp on three that I wanted to fire. The length that works for me is 1.50 + .38 for the crimp. my overall length was 1 7/8 long.

After adding the glue thickness came to .698 and my bore is .699 The cups holed 1 1/8 oz. without crowding the rim. I took a ride to the place I showed you above and loaded up. I counted shot at 164 pellets in my load. I slit my first shot cup three places and 83 passed thru the pizza box at 30 paces.

My second try I slit the cup twice and peppered the box better than before. I only brought one box so your looking at both shots. My third shot was at 25 paces and I'm very confident with this load.

Well, thats it for me. Thats as far as I'll go with it and now I'm ready for duck hunting.