Staking Barrel Tenons?

[Valkyrie]

My father was a master machinist. A real deal tool and die man. He taught me how to use files properly and detailed machine work by hand when I was a kid when he was an apprentice machinist. Anyways I remember him teaching me that friction fit parts that aren’t meant to be regularly disassembled should be staked in place with a center punch as long as it didn’t get in the way.

Well I fit the barrel tenons this evening and it was pretty easy. I used a safe sided triangle file to cut the dovetails. I got them really tight but staked them anyways. I have read differing views on this but I figure it can’t hurt. It gives me piece of mind also. Why I don’t know.
So the barrel is pinned in place albeit temporarily.

Slow going. Will work in fully inletting the lock mechanism maybe this weekend.

 

[Vaino]

I served a 5 yr state indentured tool and diemaker apprenticeship and then practiced my trade for many years and have never used a center punch to stake a dovetailed tenon....if properly fitted, a fairy tight press fit should be sufficient. Also....why would one remove a bbl tenon {lug} when it's permanently installed? If I saw a lug or sight dovetail w/ a center punch, the thought would be that the fit is lousy. I use a dovetail chisel to raise steel on both sides of a bbl lug dovetail and w/ the lug inserted, peen the raised steel for a permanent fit and then file flush w/ the bbl. The dovetail for the rear sight also has raised steel on both sides which are then filed into moldings and seeing the dovetail itself is only .035 deep, the moldings increase the depth to .060. The front sight has a completely filed dovetail. ......Fred

 

[oldwood]

Having built 150 m/l guns , My suggestion is to go lightly when hammering on lead bearing steel ,Keep dovetails shallow . Been using un-dovetailed , but slotted and soldered for easy , quick installation on soft barrels. Also , the staked type drilled tenon under lugs , drill as shallow hole as necessary , and solder in place. On thin wall barrels , like 13/16" , 7/8" , 3/4" , etc. , heavy hammering can dimple the bore. Also , beware , tightening a thin wall barrel in a vise can crush the barrel slightly oval , thus ruining the bore. Been there , done that. .........oldwood

 

[Scota@4570]

If you do a good job the tenons they will look like they grew out of the barrel. Staking them is totally unnecessary and looks terrible and amateurish. I really hate to see staked sights. It look awful and permanently defaces the barrel.

 

[Valkyrie]

Well I wouldn’t stake my sights for certain. I did dress the stakes with a fine file and I think it all looks fine and it not visible anyway.
My bigger issue that I’m trying to solve is that it appears that this stock may have been accidentally started as a swamped profile at the breach area. As I had mentioned in another post the breach was preinlet very deep and wide. It’s not terrible but I think I may have to live with it and make it appear natural somehow. Not the end of the world and probably 99/100 people wouldn’t notice it anyways but I’m going very slow and taking my time to do this right.

 

[Valkyrie]

Also this rifle is gonna be a gift to my brother. He has a Lyman Deer Stalker but has been wanting a more traditional and ornate rifle. I figure he’d like it.

 

[BS]

If you do a good job the tenons they will look like they grew out of the barrel. Staking them is totally unnecessary and looks terrible and amateurish. I really hate to see staked sights. It look awful and permanently defaces the barrel.

Please explain to us how you do it. [tenons]
Everyone always want the best job possible, please share.

 

[EC121]

I install the underlugs about .030. Lightly tap the dovetail metal down to snug the lug. Then file the proud metal down to the barrel surface. It just saves having to inlet the lug base in the bottom of the barrel channel.

 

[Vaino]

Using a dovetail chisel for bbl lugs speeds things up a mite, but the main thing is that the bbl lug installation looks professional. I explained the entire procedure in a previous post in English in this topic but evidently some skip to the later posts......Fred

 

[andy52]

I can't say I categorically never stake tenons in place because some types of tenons can't be done any other way.

 

[Valkyrie]

Using a dovetail chisel for bbl lugs speeds things up a mite, but the main thing is that the bbl lug installation looks professional. I explained the entire procedure in a previous post in English in this topic but evidently some skip to the later posts......Fred

I should have thought about this more. I read this and other posts. So I found an old cold chisel and worked it into a 45 degree bevel and blunted the edge. I carefully marked the position of the lug and cut the bulk of material out with a very small hack saw. Filed the mortise square and used the chisel to make the dovetails. It’s tight. I used an old drive pin punch I polished smooth on the bottom to tap the uplifted dovetails down onto the tenon. It’s great and all filed flush and smooth and indeed looks like the tenon is part of the barrel. Lesson learned. I was really surprised how easy it was and how clean it looks. It was much quicker also.

I was going through my things and found I don’t have a 1/4-32 tap for the TH liner. Off to Amazon.

 

[Valkyrie]

Please explain to us how you do it. [tenons]
Everyone always want the best job possible, please share.

Here’s how I did the last tenon today.

I use layout fluid to mark the position of the tenon. Then I used a small fine toothed hack saw to cut the outside lines and I cut them tight. I cut several plunges in between Then I just cut away the material inside the outside lines using the same saw at an angle down to the depth I marked for the tenon.

I found an old cold chisel. I ground it flush then carefully ground a 45 degree bevel on one face and then blunted the edge. Lightly tapping the chisel in the slot I was able to make nice displacement dovetails on each outside end of the mortise. Checking as I went until I could just get the tenon started. Once I drifted it into place I made sure it was square and centered I used a drive pin punch to flattendown the displaced barrel metal onto the tenon. After it was all done and tight I dressed it all flush with a fine file. The seams disappeared and it looks as it the tenon is part of the barrel.

they sell dove tail chisels just for this job but I made one and it works perfectly.

 

[Scota@4570]

Please explain to us how you do it. [tenons]
Everyone always want the best job possible, please share.

I make the dovetail and tenon on the mill with the same cutter. The tennon is made first and a hair wide. I slightly taper a corner of foot. I then cut the dovetail in the barrel by carefully measuring and sneaking up on the width. When I am about 0.003 over ( remember the tapered corner on the tennon?... I start the tenon and check for fit with magic marker. I carefully fit the tenon and dovetail with three corner safe side files. When fitting the tenon to the dovetail use some lube to prevent galling. When it is all the way home I take it out, but only if it comes easy, and install permanently with loctite 664 sealant. I then mill the tennon to match the barrel. I then drawfile the tennon to look like part of the barrel.

 

[BS]

Scota@4570
Very nice, do you make your own or use someone's blanks?

 

[Scota@4570]

Generally I make everything.

 

[Vaino]

Hi...a purchased dovetail chisel is shown....a thickness of thin cardboard is slipped under the striking surface of the chisel. The chisel is aligned {sideways} parallel w/ the top flat of the bbl, held down and struck. A safe, one sided file is used under the dovetail's angles so the bottom surface of the dovetail is completely flat.....if not done, daylight will be seen under the lug or rear sight. The chisel has a slight tendency to raise up a bit when struck.....Fred

 

[Valkyrie]

I make the dovetail and tenon on the mill with the same cutter. The tennon is made first and a hair wide. I slightly taper a corner of foot. I then cut the dovetail in the barrel by carefully measuring and sneaking up on the width. When I am about 0.003 over ( remember the tapered corner on the tennon?... I start the tenon and check for fit with magic marker. I carefully fit the tenon and dovetail with three corner safe side files. When fitting the tenon to the dovetail use some lube to prevent galling. When it is all the way home I take it out, but only if it comes easy, and install permanently with loctite 664 sealant. I then mill the tennon to match the barrel. I then drawfile the tennon to look like part of the barrel.

That is art! Very nice!