Spring tempering.

[Crow#21957]

On a lock kit Large siler
I believe I can do one but tempering the springs is like brain surgery to me.LOL
I have no way to ck tep on them when heating. Is there a simple way. Anyone want to do the springs for me. I'm assuming it's just the main spring.I would like to know how. Thanks

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I urge you to use the website search function and look for threads on hardening and tempering springs. There are many.

dave

 

[Crow#21957]

I just got there. Looks like alot of reading. Thanks

 

[FlinterNick]

Hardening and tempering is a step critical process, one wrong step and you’ll end up with a broken or lame spring.

One thing i can say is doing it with a torch is not easy, if you’re using torch make sure its propane so it doesn’t overheat.

 

[Crow#21957]

Thanks Both of you. Flinternick that's what I needed to know. Thanks

 

[ronaldrothb49]

On a lock kit Large siler
I believe I can do one but tempering the springs is like brain surgery to me.LOL
I have no way to ck tep on them when heating. Is there a simple way. Anyone want to do the springs for me. I'm assuming it's just the main spring.I would like to know how. Thanks

The springs oon a siler lock kit are already hardened. You don't need to do anything with the springs but you do need to harden and temper the tumbler, the sear, the fly and the frizzen if a flintlock

 

[FlinterNick]

The springs oon a siler lock kit are already hardened. You don't need to do anything with the springs but you do need to harden and temper the tumbler, the sear, the fly and the frizzen if a flintlock

Hardened and tempered before parts are drilled and fitted ? The last two siler locks is made everything was casted. Springs are 6150, frizzen is 1095 steel.

 

[FlinterNick]

Thanks Both of you. Flinternick that's what I needed to know. Thanks

You just want to be careful with the quenching, i would always use oil, i would use canola or quenching oil, mineral oil is ok too. if you’re going to use water, make sure it’s hot water with potassium nitrate mixed in and in a large container, at least a gallon or two.

I wouldn’t use tap water, tap water in the northeast is loaded with stuff that can contaminate a quench, fluoride, chorine and other stuff in trace amounts.

Rifle shoppe says they use a water quench, but there’s a lot more to that than their instructions indicate, type of heat, size of the part and where the water is from.

I’ve had the best results with an oven at 1600, and a quenching oil and then i temper at 700 degrees for 45 min to an hour.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Hardened and tempered before parts are drilled and fitted ? The last two siler locks is made everything was casted. Springs are 6150, frizzen is 1095 steel.

On a lock kit Large siler
I believe I can do one but tempering the springs is like brain surgery to me.LOL
I have no way to ck tep on them when heating. Is there a simple way. Anyone want to do the springs for me. I'm assuming it's just the main spring.I would like to know how. Thanks

Question, Have you purchased the siler lock kit yet? If you haven't purchased it yet DON'T. Siler kits are not tinker toys that you just snap together there is a lot of work involved in putting one together. Just finished putting the last one I had together for the rifle I am working on. I had bought several from Jim Chambers when he took over siler so it had been sitting around for 30 years as I tried to avoid it. Given I didn't have much money in it I got the Improved tumbler and sear from Muzzleloader Builders Supply just to see if they would work on the kit. The improved parts work and are much better than what comes with the kit which still comes with the original siler parts. My advice get the improved Siler lock.

 

[FlinterNick]

Question, Have you purchased the siler lock kit yet? If you haven't purchased it yet DON'T. Siler kits are not tinker toys that you just snap together there is a lot of work involved in putting one together. Just finished putting the last one I had together for the rifle I am working on. I had bought several from Jim Chambers when he took over siler so it had been sitting around for 30 years as I tried to avoid it. Given I didn't have much money in it I got the Improved tumbler and sear from Muzzleloader Builders Supply just to see if they would work on the kit. The improved parts work and are much better than what comes with the kit which still comes with the original siler parts. My advice get the improved Siler lock.

Siler kits are sold by chambers and I believe track of the wolf possibly others.

I’ve had the Siler lock kit given to me to assemble. Large and small. Most
Lock kits are complicated to assemble.

 

[LRB]

You just want to be careful with the quenching, i would always use oil, i would use canola or quenching oil, mineral oil is ok too. if you’re going to use water, make sure it’s hot water with potassium nitrate mixed in and in a large container, at least a gallon or two.

I wouldn’t use tap water, tap water in the northeast is loaded with stuff that can contaminate a quench, fluoride, chorine and other stuff in trace amounts.

Rifle shoppe says they use a water quench, but there’s a lot more to that than their instructions indicate, type of heat, size of the part and where the water is from.

I’ve had the best results with an oven at 1600, and a quenching oil and then i temper at 700 degrees for 45 min to an hour.

Never quench in water alone even if the steel is a water quench type. Add 13oz, half a common box of table salt, per gallon to make a brine solution. Brine hardens deeper and faster than just water, is less violent, and yet is much less likely to cause the part to crack or break. Warm the brine to 100°/110F. Salt immediately bonds to the surface of the hot steel and prevents a vapor/steam jacket from forming around the steel, which produces an insulation barrier between the steel and water and prevents even contact with the water. All this happens in nano seconds. Uneven cooling is the main cause of breakage and warpage in a quench. Use clean water. Purified water is best. Most spring steels do best with a temper heat of 725° to 750°. 750° especially in hypereutectoid steels.

 

[rp77469]

Good thead to bookmark. I still have two Bud Siler kits I want to build someday....

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Siler kits are sold by chambers and I believe track of the wolf possibly others.

I’ve had the Siler lock kit given to me to assemble. Large and small. Most
Lock kits are complicated to assemble.

The Siler kits aren't really complicated to assemble I have done several but this last one had set for 30 years. Depending on what tools you have and what your time is worth your going to find out that you haven't saved any money. To do one of these kits like the guys who assemble them for Chambers you are going to need a couple thousand dollar's worth of tools. You can do one by hand at a minimum you need a drill press and even then it is going to be very difficult to make it like the ones done that Chambers sell finished.

 

[ZUG]

I've assembled MANY locks from Bud Siler and Jim Chambers from 1968 on and they are not complicated to do you just need to go slowly and have a good drill press and some of the correct size drills (the correct size reamers are good to have also). As said above you will need to harden the tumbler, sear, fly and frizzen - the springs are already hardened - call Jim Chambers if you want the CORRECT non BS advice. Listen to LRB when he tells you about hardening and tempering, he is a wealth of knowledge on the subject.

 

[ibud38]

The brine solution for hardening water quentiable steel is definately the way to go, I temper my springs in my casting pot which is controlled by a P.I.D. at 750 deg.