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Something Fishy going on with Pedersoli "Old English" model

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If you read Pedroli's advertising, the "Old English" shotgun is 6.83 pounds, has lighter barrels and a maple stock, with a "patch-box" and architectured extended trigger guard tang.

I have corresponded with Pedersoli extensively, and have received some detailed information via email about specs. The LOP, D@C, D@H, choke have all been expressed in mm's. The weight has been expressed in pounds and kilograms. Even the trigger pulls were provided. The recommended load - stamped on the barrel is 72 grains powder/ 1 1/8th ounce shot.

These were out of stock from every retailer I could find in the USA for the past several months. Two importers were also out of stock. Several shipments have arrived, both to the distributors and the retailers. But something is wrong.....

I've asked Dixie and Midway to literally weigh an Old English model for me as a prospective buyer. Dixie said the one they opened weighs 7 pound 4 ounces. I forgot to ask what load was marked on the barrels, but referring to their website, Dixie says 72 grain, 1 1/8 ounce shot. Midway responded that theirs weighs 7 pounds 5 ounces. Midways says the barrel is marked 89 grains, 1 1/4 ounce shot. I asked them to make sure it's an Old English model and they are certain.
I've called another retailer but did not get an answer and only corresponded by email. They did not say whether they literally took it out of the box and weighed it, but their response was 7 pound 4.5 ounces (so you'd think that's actual weight). I asked for the recommended load - they too said 89 grains, and 1 1/4 ounce shot.

Our own forum brother "New Hampshire" posted that he just bought an Old English from Midway (Dec 23, 2023) and it weighs 7 pounds 5 ounces on his scale.

I forwarded this information to Pedersoli and they responded that weight can vary slightly, but an Old English model - unloaded, should not exceed 6 pound 15 ounces, with an range of 6 pounds 11 ounces to 6 pounds 13 ounces being most common. They have 72 grains 1 1/8 ounce as the suggested load.

What is going on here? I am interested in the Old English with an under 7-pound weight. Almost every retailer has a no return policy, so I am not willing to take a chance for $2000 and get a 7 pound 5 ounce gun. How do some retailers have this model with 89 grains, 1 1/4 ounce shot on the barrels when Pedersoli says this isn't so?

Frustrating! This is fishy to say the least? Anyone have insight?
 
I went to the Dixie site and took a look at it, that is a good looking gun from the pictures. Midway lists it at 6.83 lbs

I would be interested if anyone has one to weigh it.
 
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Is there a difference between English pounds and American pounds?
If it gets wet, either the American or the English pound would naturally become heavier. These wet pounds, when thoroughly dried of all moisture should return to their original weight. Care must be used in this regard.
Note that this is why bathroom scales are so often inaccurate, due to frequent humid or damp to wet conditions which weighten the pounds.
 
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For the price I'd like to buy them in store but... allot to spend on a gun without seeing it in person etc... the stocks are the same wood but different pieces etc.....

Is a no return item I think?

1 year manufacturer warrenty...
 
I've never seen an Old English SxS. However, I have owned a Pedersoli 12 gauge and a 20 gauge, both recent production as in 2006, 2007. Their catalogue listed the 12 at 7.05 pounds, and the 20 at 7.35 pounds. My 20 was about as close to 7.05 pounds as I could measure and the 12 was 7.4 pounds. The current on line catalogue lists the 12 at 7.05 pounds and 20 at 7.49 pounds. I conclude that the catalogue is not entirely accurate.

I realize this is not entirely helpful, but it could prove valuable.
 
If you read Pedroli's advertising, the "Old English" shotgun is 6.83 pounds, has lighter barrels and a maple stock, with a "patch-box" and architectured extended trigger guard tang.

I have corresponded with Pedersoli extensively, and have received some detailed information via email about specs. The LOP, D@C, D@H, choke have all been expressed in mm's. The weight has been expressed in pounds and kilograms. Even the trigger pulls were provided. The recommended load - stamped on the barrel is 72 grains powder/ 1 1/8th ounce shot.

These were out of stock from every retailer I could find in the USA for the past several months. Two importers were also out of stock. Several shipments have arrived, both to the distributors and the retailers. But something is wrong.....

I've asked Dixie and Midway to literally weigh an Old English model for me as a prospective buyer. Dixie said the one they opened weighs 7 pound 4 ounces. I forgot to ask what load was marked on the barrels, but referring to their website, Dixie says 72 grain, 1 1/8 ounce shot. Midway responded that theirs weighs 7 pounds 5 ounces. Midways says the barrel is marked 89 grains, 1 1/4 ounce shot. I asked them to make sure it's an Old English model and they are certain.
I've called another retailer but did not get an answer and only corresponded by email. They did not say whether they literally took it out of the box and weighed it, but their response was 7 pound 4.5 ounces (so you'd think that's actual weight). I asked for the recommended load - they too said 89 grains, and 1 1/4 ounce shot.

Our own forum brother "New Hampshire" posted that he just bought an Old English from Midway (Dec 23, 2023) and it weighs 7 pounds 5 ounces on his scale.

I forwarded this information to Pedersoli and they responded that weight can vary slightly, but an Old English model - unloaded, should not exceed 6 pound 15 ounces, with an range of 6 pounds 11 ounces to 6 pounds 13 ounces being most common. They have 72 grains 1 1/8 ounce as the suggested load.

What is going on here? I am interested in the Old English with an under 7-pound weight. Almost every retailer has a no return policy, so I am not willing to take a chance for $2000 and get a 7 pound 5 ounce gun. How do some retailers have this model with 89 grains, 1 1/4 ounce shot on the barrels when Pedersoli says this isn't so?

Frustrating! This is fishy to say the least? Anyone have insight?
I have owned a Pedersoli 12 gauge and a 20 gauge, both recent production as in 2006, 2007. Their catalogue listed the 12 at 7.05 pounds, and the 20 at 7.35 pounds.
Doubt weight of older Pedersoli 12 gauge shotguns apply to the OP. My Pedersoli 12 gauge double proofed in 1978 (AD date code) weighs in at just under 6 pounds, 5.8 pounds if I recall correctly.

As far as loads, plenty of overthinking going on in my opinion. While I don’t believe the OP states it, assume we are talking about a 12 gauge. That being the case, I would start with square loads at the shot charges I was interested in, say for example 7/8oz, 1oz and 1-1/4oz. Use an equal amount of powder by volume to match the volume of your shot charge and adjust powder (or shot) up or down a bit from there as performance dictates. What’s stamped on the barrels, in the instruction manual or on the manufacturer’s website is just for reference, and quite honestly is likely something written by a legal beagle or similar and means little to me. Oh, and consider load recommendations guidelines rather than rules.

Again, start with a square load (same powder and shot volume) with a typical shot load weight (7/8 oz to 1-1/4 oz) and you will be fine.

And if you stick with the discussion, there will soon be ‘conversation’ on preferred powder granulation, from 1F to 4F, but that is more of an advanced class. @Britsmoothy may check in and if he does, pay attention if you are interested in hearing thoughts based on real world experience, though that experience may be controversial to some.
 
I THINK Midway USA has a "No Return" policy on muzzle loaders. For me, personally, that would be a deal killer on a two thousand dollar anything.

Generally speaking, the wood on most Italian reproduction firearms has always been a pig in a poke. Many are beautiful, but I've also seen some that were decidedly just "odd". Not "oddly beautiful", but "WTH?". Good luck.
 
Agreed, a 12 ga should be able to handle anything up to a 100 grains of 2Fg or 90 grains of 3Fg and 7/8 oz to 1 1/4 oz. What is on the barrels is a basic recommend stating point. Here is a good reference. This is a standard Pedersoli book that came with my first 20ga. No load markings were on the barrel. The next 2018 and 2019 had the load recommendations on the barrel at 75 grains but had these books in with them. Same barrels though. The book says 70 grains to 90 grains for the 20 ga with 1 oz of shot. See picture.
Both 12 ga's are rated to 100 grains. This a 2013 book. They no longer include the books just a shooters guide. Personally I would shoot 85 to 90 grains 3Fg all day in a 12.
 

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In regard to the OLD ENGLISH specifically, the weight of the gun is in question, not so much the loads. It is interesting that Pedersoli states the barrels are "thinner and lighter" than other 12-gauge models AND alleged to be marked 72 grains 1 1/8 ounce.

I have several Pedersoli's and two 12-gauge in particular have no load markings on the barrels but the overall weight of one is 5 pounds 11 ounces and the other 5 pounds 14 ounces. The barrels are almost a pound lighter than my later model (with screw in chokes too) that weighs 7 pounds 5 ounces and is marked 89 grains 1 1/4 ounce.

All I want to know is what is the actual weight of the OLD ENGLISH model? What it says on the barrels doesn't matter to me. Again, 2 retailers weighed an actual OLD ENGLISH out of the box, unloaded and reported a weight well over 7-pounds. Unless they both got the wrong model or a bad scale, something is fishy. Pedersoli reports in correspondence that an OLD ENGLISH should never weight more than 6 pounds 14 ounces at max. Pedersoli touts the reduced weight as one of the attractions of this model. The discrepancy is with gun weight and that is the mystery I'd like solved.
 
I wonder if the barrels from the "magnum" model interchange with the old english receiver. Thicker walls for heavier charges, thus more weight. Just a WAG. I wouldn't doubt at least some level of interchangeability like that in a mass production scenario.

Did Pedersoli provide any dimensions for just the barrels themselves?
 
the look of the wood can be different between stocks... I hated buying anything without picking it out. I've seen many used guns sell for more because the stock was pissa looking.

Italian s probably sending us the bruised fruit from there bumper crop.

wait till it sells out... then wait for them to get more and have them weight those.
 
The pictures are no good either.. what the deal with that..

Some gun sites you can get a close up of any angle of the gun... others usually the higher shelf prices crapy one photo blurry when zoomed in.

same with some fishing rods.. seems the more they want worse the picture
 
Sir, I believe the one pictured is a 20 ga model which is beautiful. Looks like they are for sale in Europe. May be able to order one for Stateside delivery. Weight wise I believe they hover around 7 pounds. Call Flintlocks Ect and find out. Last phone number I have for Mr Richard Beauchamp.
(413) 698-3822
He imports Pedersoli's line so he would know.
 
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