Smoothbore load testing

[duelist1954]

I’ve been working on a smoothbore round ball test by shooting both patched and bare round balls with both 2Fg and 3Fg Goex powders.

Some of you may recall that a few months ago I took a survey here, and on some other muzzleloading sites to see how you shoot your smoothbores. For the test I shot the powder charges that came up as the most popular in my on-line survey.

I shot from the bench at 50 yards because virtually every load shoots a decent group at 25 yards, you have to get out to 50 to 100 yards before you really see what a group looks like.

I found that my results don’t always back up conventional wisdom. I suspect some of you will be getting out your scalping knives when you see my results. All I can say is that these are the results for a particular gun, and particular shooter on a particular day. Your results may vary.

So, before you unlimber your slings and arrows, I recommend you go to the range and shoot your pet load from the bench at 50 yards for a group. Then shoot my load of 110 grains of 2Fg under tow-.610 ball-tow, or 110 gr 2Fg Goex under 0.015” patch./0.580” ball, and see how your load does head to head vs mine”¦then come after me. If you do this, you’ll either feel vindicated when your load comes out on top, or you’ll have a new pet load”¦either way, you win.

So here are some take-aways:
1. The best patched ball load tested, and the best bare ball load tested, turned in exactly the same group.

2. 2Fg out-performed 3Fg with both bare balls and with patched balls

3. A tight ball/patch combo was not the most accurate shooter.

4. A looser ball/patch behaved just like a bare ball”¦liked bigger powder charges of 2Fg better than lighter charges.

5. As with bare balls, 3Fg builds pressure faster than it builds velocity with bigger loads.

For the bare ball test I shot .610-inch balls wadded with tow. My best groups were with 110 grains of 2Fg, and 80 grains of 3Fg.


For the first round of patched ball testing I shot 0.595” balls with 0.015” patches using the most popular powder charges from the survey.

For round two, I shot 0.580” balls with the 0.015” patches, and I used the powder charges that shot the best with bare balls.
By far the best patched ball groups I shot were a 3-inch diameter with 80 grains of 2Fg/0.595” ball/0.015” patch, and another 3-inch group with 110 grains of 2Fg/0.580” ball/0.015” patch

I’m not done testing yet. I still need to shoot chewed balls, and balls wadded with modern fiber cards & wads, and I want to re-visit some results, but, I thought I’d share the preliminary findings and gather your input”¦so fire away”¦

YouTube video is here, if you prefer that format.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhTgf2OjOrs

 

[Docgp]

I'm really early inn the mix on mine also, but so far it really likes chewed ball over a fiber wad. Will try some of your loads and post my results here also......... if it will ever quit raining!! For some reason the wife gets all huffy of I shoot from the living room :rotf:

Doc

 

[George]

Thanks for the report and the video, Mike. I always enjoy your work.

On this one I'll let you color me skeptical. My overall impression of the groups is that a lot of the results have shooter input issues. it has never been my experience that changing from 2F to 3F or from bare ball to patched ball caused that much variation in results, either in elevation or group size. Don't get me wrong, those groups look familiar, but it was back when I was first learning to shoot my smoothbore without a rear sight. Once I got the shooter whipped into line, the groups took on a very different appearance.

Spence

 

[Britsmoothy]

Impressive stuff. Thanks for the time you have taken :hatsoff:

B.

 

[duelist1954]

Spence, it isn't like I haven't considered it...some of those groups make me doubt my shooting ability. But, I don't understand how I can shoot a three or four inch group every time I load with 110 grains of 2Fg, or why
I can shoot a three inch group on the second string and the 10th string of patched ball testing, but lose all ability to shoot a gun on the intervening strings...

But, I have been thinking of supergluing a very low rear sight to the fusil and re-running the tests, just to take that variable out of the mix...good thing my shoulder has healed up...LOL

 

[George]

I was tempted to do that many a time, Mike, but I believe a lot of the old boys did it that way, and it was a skill I wanted to learn, so I resisted. A slow process, but it does happen. I got my first flintlock smoothbore in early June, and it was late October before I shot a 75 yard group I was pleased with.

They certainly did put rear sights on smoothbores, though, so that's a viable option.

I'm really glad to see that your shoulder seems to be getting back to normal. Treat it well. :grin:

Spence

 

[George]

Mike, I usually get some good info from your reports, that's one of the reasons I appreciate your efforts so and look forward to them. This time I collected a nice group of 20 gauge smoothbore velocities, which I always find useful and am glad to get.

If I guessed your fusil has a 42" barrel would I be far off? :grin:

Spence

 

[duelist1954]

Yup, 42 inches. I put a rear sight on my last last fowler, but I've been shooting this one without, and I plan to keep it that way, but I'm thinking of temporarily super gluing a rear sight on just for the load tests, to insure I'm taking out every variable that I can.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Good work Mike...always find your posts illuminating. For myself, I've ended up using a method I'd been studying for some time and was written about some years ago by Carl Semencic who used to run the old Muzzleloader Hide. He was playing with lubed thin leather patches for a rifled muzzle loader but I took it a step further and used it in my smooth bore. He noted it compressed better than cloth, didn't smolder and were not blown out or burned through. I use chamois usually and keep tabs with the local auto parts places and go through their chamois when they run sales. Granted, it's more work than linen or cotton but seems to seal well and produces the best results in my .62, which is a 46" barrel by the way.
Over the years I've played with all kinds of patching and have even experimented with tow, jute and even Spanish Moss and wads of spring clover...no, I have no pride! :wink: I like easy and chamois patched ball over 75-80 grains of FFFg seems to do best...makes me a happy camper! :haha: :thumbsup:

 

[rdstrain49]

Mike, I'm sorry to be the one to inform you, but your test results are useless. You need to do the entire thing over using a 54 cal. smooth bore, not that 62.

Tuesday will be soon enough to complete the testing.

Thanks.

RS

 

[Cruzatte]

Mike, I always appreciate your videos. This one gives me quite a lot of food for thought. I have a Caywood 20 ga. fusil, and want to run many of the same tests and see what I come up with. Thanks again for all your work.

 

[The Baron]

I find the velocity data especially interesting. As for accuracy, I suspect there are similar barrel dynamics happening and the search for the "sweet spot" (where the barrel releases the projectile at the same consistent point in it's movement) is the same as with centerfire rifles - I would think the laws of physics don't care about traditional guns vs modern. If that is the case, then every individual gun is at least little different (even if there are identical in barrel maker and dimensions), but there are some load combinations that just seem to work well across the board.

Thanks for taking the time to do this and share your results, Mike. :hatsoff:

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

More than a few friends who are excellent smoothie shooters always opine 'more powdah', patched or bare ball.

I too would like to see a similar test done but with a sight temporarily affixed to the breech.

Somewhere on here I posted all of the test shots (3-shot groups) for my 54" barreled 65-cal Fusil de Boucanier from 50-grains to 90-grains, in 5-grain increments (3F powdah).

Now ... you're making me repeat it using FFg, haha! Thanks Mike!

 

[Ray-Vigo]

My 24 gauge was also indifferent as to a smaller, patched ball and a slightly larger, bare ball. The accuracy was virtually the same. The biggest difference was the bare ball loads tended to foul the bore faster and made it harder to clean.

 

[duelist1954]

The temporary rear sight didn't even survive the trip to the range..."super glue" my ass...LOL

 

[Skychief]

The temporary rear sight didn't even survive the trip to the range..."super glue" my ass...LOL

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Laugh in' with ya Mike, not at ya!!!!

Best regards, Skychief

PS, I want to say that I enjoy the fruits of your labor too. Keep it up. :thumbsup:

 

[The Baron]

The temporary rear sight didn't even survive the trip to the range..."super glue" my ass...LOL

Oh no! Maybe try JB weld, but I don't know it that would ever release without some serious hammering. I guess it's a fine line between temporary but will come off when you want, and permanently stuck. If the barrel is oct-round a pretty slick solution might be to cut a dovetail for a rear sight and just knock out the sight (or have a flat plug you could slide in) if you wanted to go back to no sight. :hmm:

 

[Percy]

Duct tape will do the job. When I was a kid I hunted deer with a single shot 12 gauge with a BB gun sight duct taped on the barrel, never failed me.

I enjoy your posts and videos, nice job.

Percy

 

[Cruzatte]

The temporary rear sight didn't even survive the trip to the range..."super glue" my ass...LOL

Here's a weird idea. And it may not work. Since you're shooting a French gun in the video what would happen if you turned the tang bolt up a few threads and use the slot as a rear sight? My only reservation is the tang bolt might be too close to your eye to be of much use. :hmm:

 

[Zonie]

Even JB Weld doesn't like heat.

It can take a lot more heat than most epoxy's but if the area is heated up to temperatures around 400°F it will lose its strength and release whatever it's holding.

These temperatures are similar to those used for soft soldering and won't harm or change steel.