Siler, or deluxe Siler?

[silly goose]

For those of you who have had experience with both, which would you prefer? They sell for the same price so to my way of thinking I'd lean toward the deluxe, but I haven't used a deluxe yet. I'm trying to decide for my next rifle. Thanks.

 

[roundball]

For those of you who have had experience with both, which would you prefer? They sell for the same price so to my way of thinking I'd lean toward the deluxe, but I haven't used a deluxe yet. I'm trying to decide for my next rifle. Thanks.

Can't give you a 1:1 comparison but can tell you a well respected builder recommended I go with Jim Chambers Deluxe Silers and I ended up using 5 of them...strong, powerful, 100% reliable, lots of sparks, long flint life...just outstanding.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
In my opinion, the deluxe Siler is a better lock. I've used both and also built standard Silers from kits. The delux Siler has a taller flintcock which enables the flint to have a longer scrape on the frizzen. The frizzen spring has improved geometry, which causes the frizzen to snap open very quickly. The tumbler differs a little from earlier Silers. The sear bar does not change position when the lock is at rest, half cock and at full cock. That makes fitting a simple trigger much easier. However, I believe current standard Silers now use the same tumbler. The deluxe Siler is a very good lock.

dave

 

[Vaino]

Between the 2 Silers, I'd opt for the Deluxe. Improved geometry.

Lately I've been using the Dale Johnson for my Lancasters because the slightly lowered "tail" lines up w/ the wrist better....could be just me, but I've never been pleased w/ the Siler lock plate "tail" location. The Chambers' Golden Age also has a lowered "tail". Both the Dale Johnson and Golden Age have the Deluxe Siler parts.....Fred

 

[galamb]

The Siler is pretty much the lock that Bud Siler designed back when.

The Deluxe Siler tried to improve a bit on the original design but still allow it to fit in a pre-inlet that had been using a Siler.

Personally I would go with the Chambers Golden Age which took the best from the Siler design plus improvements that Chambers saw could be made to both the original Siler and the deluxe model (and fits the same time frame as the Siler design).

 

[B.Habermehl]

I have used all three with excellent results. No complaints at all. The Siler represents a bit earlier lock style Than the golden age. Maybe by ten or so years. The delux Siler is a improved version of the Siler lock. All have been really dependable to me. You will never go wrong with any of these. Bjh

 

[smoothshooter]

Before ordering any lock right now, be sure to inquire of the maker / seller if the recent steel quality issues have been resolved. For the last year or so even the best lock producers have been plagued with difficulty in getting good, consistent quality steel to work with. A semi - custom maker informed me mid - last year he had to return a quantity of locks to a maker due to poor quality steel. Seems most of the steel used nowadays is recycled and sometimes inconsistent in makeup, and for some applications, in this case lock parts, variations in heat treatability have become a problem. Most of the time the manufacturers are catching the bad parts before they get out the door, but a few get through.
Some barrel makers were having similar problems, but it has been more of a matter of unpredictable variations in machinability, not safety.

 

[B.Habermehl]

I would not be too concerned chambers locks have a lifetime warranty. They twill fix or replace any quality issues no fuss or bother. The only issue I have had with their locks in over twenty five years of building guns were one main spring that failed due to a gas pocket void. They had it in the mail the same day I called. I wouldn't worry a bit. BJH

 

[matt denison]

Before ordering any lock right now, be sure to inquire of the maker / seller if the recent steel quality issues have been resolved. For the last year or so even the best lock producers have been plagued with difficulty in getting good, consistent quality steel to work with. A semi - custom maker informed me mid - last year he had to return a quantity of locks to a maker due to poor quality steel. Seems most of the steel used nowadays is recycled and sometimes inconsistent in makeup, and for some applications, in this case lock parts, variations in heat treatability have become a problem. Most of the time the manufacturers are catching the bad parts before they get out the door, but a few get through.
Some barrel makers were having similar problems, but it has been more of a matter of unpredictable variations in machinability, not safety.

Huh?! Ya gotta be kidding. Wherer are you getting this (rumor)information?

" Seems most of the steel used nowadays is recycled"

Not true. Unless.. you are talking about India made guns.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Before ordering any lock right now, be sure to inquire of the maker / seller if the recent steel quality issues have been resolved. For the last year or so even the best lock producers have been plagued with difficulty in getting good, consistent quality steel to work with. A semi - custom maker informed me mid - last year he had to return a quantity of locks to a maker due to poor quality steel. Seems most of the steel used nowadays is recycled and sometimes inconsistent in makeup, and for some applications, in this case lock parts, variations in heat treatability have become a problem. Most of the time the manufacturers are catching the bad parts before they get out the door, but a few get through.
Some barrel makers were having similar problems, but it has been more of a matter of unpredictable variations in machinability, not safety.

Huh?! Ya gotta be kidding. Wherer are you getting this (rumor)information?

" Seems most of the steel used nowadays is recycled"

Not true. Unless.. you are talking about India made guns.

Yep, I was skeeptikal when I read that also.
But, to his credit, he did say

Seems

.
He was bloviating. Pure :bull:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Here's an interesting article.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303277704579344852685727292

 

[hanshi]

I don't have a Deluxe Siler but do have a Golden Age. The internals are the same as is the longer cock; the plate, of course, is different. All my Silers are totally reliable but the GA lock packs a bigger "whack".

 

[silly goose]

Thank you to all, for your replies.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Here's an interesting article.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303277704579344852685727292[/quote]

You have to be a subscriber to the Wall Street Journal to read the article in your link. :shocked2: :shocked2:
Since I'm not,I can't read it.
Thanks anyway,
Twisted_ 1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[19 16 6]

" Seems most of the steel used nowadays is recycled"
[/b]
Not true. Unless.. you are talking about India made guns.

Unless you buy specific grades from reputable suppliers & pay the price, you will be getting recycled. Buying at best price, run of the mill steel products will almost guarantee it.
AT LEAST IN AUSTRALIA.
Amazing amounts of scrap steel leave our shores for South East Asia steel mills that are fed with Australian coal, iron ore & SCRAP. The resulting steel is like a trifle with grades of steel from porous sponge cake to chocolate M&M's & custard.
I do blacksmithing & building & constantly come up against this rubbish with spots so hard they burn the tip off a drill bit & an inch away from that is so soft that a tek screw will strip in it if tightened.
Two pieces of this rubbish are not the same. I can cut two one metre lengths to make scroll work at the forge & have a heap of difficulty to make them both the same even curve because of the trifle like hard soft, cake custard nature of the manure. Then it rusts something shocking. Welding it gives its own set of similar problems. This does not happen with the old Aussie made BHP virgin steel.
This recycled steel does definetly exist in large quantities but I would hope that a lock maker of any repute would not use it to make new locks :shocked2: Their reputation would soon be the same grade as the steel that they use.
So that is one type of recycled steel. recycled through the furnace & mill.
The other way is to take a plough share & beat it into a sword. This is a better way by my reckoning because the grade is known by that it was a truck spring from a 1964 Bedford & made of 1080 high carbon steel. I can work great knife blades out of that. Or a Toyota Landcruiser leaf spring that is as tough as you can get for medieval weaponry like pikes, spears & halberds.
O.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Silly Goose,

what size barrel are you using. I am doing the popular greene county size myself, a 13/16ths 45 cal.

The dip in the pan to allow the powder to get to the touch hole is huge for a 13/16ths barrel. You have to be very careful inletting the lock. There's not much meat between the bottom of the dip and the bottom of the side flat.

You may want something smaller like a manton lock if your using 13/16ths or smaller.

I put the large siler on my build, but I put the sides of the barrel channel a touch higher than 1/2 flat to allow some more metal to cover up lockplate to side of the barrel.

I'd rather look at a little less material of the barrel sides than my lock blown off in a snowbank in the Saugerties woodswalk shoot.

If I were to buy the materials again, I'd probably ask for a manton lock. I am a leftie, so my options are more limited.

 

[tenngun]

I had a siler on my southern, converted to a delux by chambers....yes I know that soutren guns didn't have German locks.... Didn't know that then....sorry, have to agree it's a good lock and I really like it.

 

[silly goose]

This lock will be sitting next to a B weight swamped .45. I won't be building this one though. I built one, and I learned a ton. First, I'm not a gun builder. I enjoyed the process, and that rifle shoots better than it ought to. I do realize that a man only has so much time, and I would rather spend that time fawning over a well made rifle, than being frustrated with the time to work on one. I am also considering Chambers Golden Age lock after the reviews on this post. Up til now, I have three silers in the house, the only flintlocksI have experience with. Just wondered about the difference. Between the deluxe and regular was all.

 

[roundball]

FWIW, my .45cal Early Virginia has a Rice 42" B-weight swamped barrel and Deluxe Siler lock

 

[nchawkeye]

Actually some southern guns did have German locks, it just depended upon the trade routes...