Sight height

[Crow#21957]

Where should I start with height if both front and rear sights.With peep sight o. Rear would I start with same distance above bore with front sight and go shoot and go from there.

 

[HSmithTX]

Do the math, have the bore and sight line converge at 50-75 yards, depending on what the rifle is and at what distance your final zero will be at, and start there, if you go equal height front and rear you will be really low at 50-75 and have to file a lot off the front. The math will get you on paper for elevation. Always err to the low side, way easier to bring the front sight down than the rear up.

 

[64Springer]

.

 

[Crow#21957]

Thanks 64Springer

 

[64Springer]

Thanks 64Springer

Post 2 covered it pretty well.

So I deleted mine.

Good luck with it.

 

[wiscoaster]

Do the math...

I'm sorry, but "doing the math" is probably not helpful to most shooters sighting in their rifles. I've zeroed many rifle sights without doing any math. Yes, it's trial and error and uses up a lot of ammo, but what the heck, it's fun shooting. And I've done both bore sighting and laser sighting, and those both just get you onto paper, where I'd start at 25 meters to see where point of impact is for point of aim. If you want a rifle zeroed at 100 yards, a zero hold at 25 yards gets you close to that, and if you want a rifle zeroed at 200 yards, a zero hold at 50 yards gets you close to that. General rules of thumb that accomodate point blank range and typical military-caliber bullet ballistics. Cautiously tweak your sights accordingly, as you described, for the desired zero distances and actual offset to point of aim, and then recheck by more shooting and more adjusting.

Sorry again, but it's the real world, and my methods have had me hitting my target at 300 yards.

If you suggest "doing the math" perhaps it would be more helpful to provide an example of using the math you suggest they use.

But, finally, if a shooter can't or doesn't want to "do the math" there are multiple excellent ballistic trajectory calculators available online, providing you know some basic things about your bullet. And, as an example, here's one:

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/ballistic-resources/

 

[French Colonial]

I'm sorry, but "doing the math" is probably not helpful to most shooters sighting in their rifles. I've zeroed many rifle sights without doing any math. Yes, it's trial and error and uses up a lot of ammo, but what the heck, it's fun shooting. And I've done both bore sighting and laser sighting, and those both just get you onto paper, where I'd start at 25 meters to see where point of impact is for point of aim. If you want a rifle zeroed at 100 yards, a zero hold at 25 yards gets you close to that, and if you want a rifle zeroed at 200 yards, a zero hold at 50 yards gets you close to that. General rules of thumb that accomodate point blank range and typical military-caliber bullet ballistics. Cautiously tweak your sights accordingly, as you described, for the desired zero distances and actual offset to point of aim, and then recheck by more shooting and more adjusting.

Sorry again, but it's the real world, and my methods have had me hitting my target at 300 yards.

If you suggest "doing the math" perhaps it would be more helpful to provide an example of using the math you suggest they use.

But, finally, if a shooter can't or doesn't want to "do the math" there are multiple excellent ballistic trajectory calculators available online, providing you know some basic things about your bullet. And, as an example, here's one:

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/ballistic-resources/

Are you talking about round ball ballistics?

I do not have any BP RB guns that are zeroed at 25 yards and are anywhere close to zero at 100 yards.

Here is a round ball ballistic calculator that works pretty well for me.

Rb ballistics

 

[wiscoaster]

Are you talking about round ball ballistics?

I do not have any BP RB guns that are zeroed at 25 yards and are anywhere close to zero at 100 yards.

Here is a round ball ballistic calculator that works pretty well for me.

Rb ballistics

I haven't run any ballistics specifically for round balls, no, but I was wondering about some of the inputs, like the ballistic coefficient e.g., when I was writing that post, so thanks a bunch for the link. My experience with round balls and black powder so far is limited to pistols. Now that I recheck again, this BC calculator, which I've used, is NOT for round balls:
http://gundata.org/ballistic-coefficient-calculatorand while the Hornady calculator linked in my post above above allows variable BC input, but allows only the G1 and G7 drag coefficient models, which are also NOT round ball DC models.
Thanks for making that distinction between pointy and blunt projectiles.

 

[kelvinator]

I have a 32" barrel, no taper 1" across flats. (.54 cal if it matters)
The rear sight is 6.5" ahead of the breech.
The front sight is 2" from the end of barrel.
Front and rear sight 23.5" apart.
Front sight height .252"
Rear sight height .372"
Rear sight .120" higher than front.
POI same as POA at 25 yards.
POI about 1.5" high at 50 yards.
With 70g fff Goex and PRB.
Have yet to shoot it farther than 50 yards.

 

[wiscoaster]

Here's the formula for calculating iron sight change for sight radius, elevation point of impact offset, and distance to target:
https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/How_to_adjust_an_iron_sightCrucial to note that all units must be the same and to the same scale. You use the same formula for both elevation and windage, though whether you can adjust for both depends. If you've got fixed iron sights, you can only adjust for elevation offset, and you adjust the rear sight for hitting too high and you adjust the front sight for hitting too low.

...
POI about 1.5" high at 50 yards.
...

Good heavens, that's nothing. Many of my milsurps shoot 12 inches off at 100 yards, and I just adjust my hold. I keep a chart of POI v. POA for all my milsurps. I'm not screwing with some 80-year old collectible rifle's sights.

So, like I said, I've never done the math, but that's the math if you want to do it. With my modern rifles, I sight in like I described in post #6, above, and no math involved.

 

[HSmithTX]

Sorry, I figured that the math is pretty simple, use a right triangle calculator if you need help.

 

[kelvinator]

I figured maybe the OP could look at my numbers and realize starting out with the sights level to bore will result in really low POI.
More to the point, start out with the rear sight at least a little higher than the front.
Maybe I should have just said that.
I never do the "math" either, that could result in less shooting needed to get sighted in and where's the fun in that?

 

[NorthFork]

I'm sorry, but "doing the math" is probably not helpful to most shooters sighting in their rifles. I've zeroed many rifle sights without doing any math. Yes, it's trial and error and uses up a lot of ammo, but what the heck, it's fun shooting. And I've done both bore sighting and laser sighting, and those both just get you onto paper, where I'd start at 25 meters to see where point of impact is for point of aim. If you want a rifle zeroed at 100 yards, a zero hold at 25 yards gets you close to that, and if you want a rifle zeroed at 200 yards, a zero hold at 50 yards gets you close to that. General rules of thumb that accomodate point blank range and typical military-caliber bullet ballistics. Cautiously tweak your sights accordingly, as you described, for the desired zero distances and actual offset to point of aim, and then recheck by more shooting and more adjusting.

Sorry again, but it's the real world, and my methods have had me hitting my target at 300 yards.

If you suggest "doing the math" perhaps it would be more helpful to provide an example of using the math you suggest they use.

But, finally, if a shooter can't or doesn't want to "do the math" there are multiple excellent ballistic trajectory calculators available online, providing you know some basic things about your bullet. And, as an example, here's one:

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/ballistic-resources/

Huh? Any muzzleloader I've zeroed at 50 yards is 4-8" low at 100 yards.

 

[wiscoaster]

Huh? Any muzzleloader I've zeroed at 50 yards is 4-8" low at 100 yards.

That would make perfect sense, given a round ball's initial muzzle velocity and drag coefficient, which of course I don't know, but both are considerably less than a smokeless powder center fire cartridge propelling a Spitzer bullet. The black powder round ball is going to drop a whole lot more. I thought I made it clear, if you read all the posts, that my comments were not applicable to black powder and round balls.

 

[wiscoaster]

Sorry, I figured that the math is pretty simple, use a right triangle calculator if you need help.

It is, if you feel a need to use it. It's just that most shooters don't know what it is, and/or have even felt the need to use it.

 

[HSmithTX]

It is, if you feel a need to use it. It's just that most shooters don't know what it is, and/or have even felt the need to use it.

I understand, people not knowing what they don’t know, that’s why I said do the math, if more people knew there was a pretty simple way to get in the ballpark it wouldn’t be intimidating to do it, nor would it be frustrating and expensive. I’ve seen a few ranges where an impact short of the berm gets you tossed out too, over the berm even with a round ball should get you to toss yourself out of the range.

 

[wiscoaster]

... I’ve seen a few ranges where an impact short of the berm gets you tossed out too, over the berm even with a round ball should get you to toss yourself out of the range.

I've hit the dirt short of the target numerous times. It's all part and parcel of discovering where you hit for point of aim. Over the berm is a totally different scenario and an obvious disqualfier for numerous legal, liability and potentially injurious reasons, and someone who doesn't realize the implications of bullets flying perhaps up to miles over populated territory and impacting what and who knows where doesn't deserve to be shooting at that range, and if I were the RSO on duty I'd sure as heck kick their butts outa there, too.