shots all over!!!

[norfolk shooter]

used my charles moore today for the first time. i must say that i didnt know that you want the fore sight top at the bottom of the rear sight v. anyway i got a few shots on the target and the rest of them went all over the place!!

could this be due to not cleaning the barrle every few shots?? also im finding it rather difficult to aim up wit one hand but i guess as i get the hang of it this will come. othe than that i LOVED it such fun :grin:

 

[ZUG]

Shooting a pistol with one hand takes a LOT of practice. You need to train your arm, eye, and trigger finger to work as a team - did I say PRACTICE --- do a LOT of it before you start changing anything. Then PRACTICE some more! Good Luck and do some more PRACTICE :hatsoff: .

 

[Golfswithwolves]

Are you an experienced shooter of handguns? If not: 1) Focus on the front sight. Not the rear sight or the target. Focus and see the front sight sharply and clearly 2) Squeeze the trigger. Don't pull the trigger. Squeeze the trigger. If you are slightly surprised when the pistol fires, then you are squeezing correctly 3) Continue your focus on the front sight as the pistol fires (follow- through). These steps generally will help a lot with consistant shooting. :v

 

[gordy]

Glad to hear that you had a chance to try out your gun . I would suggest that you would fire from a rest to find out just what is happening with the sights and point of impact , Remember to change only one item at a time powder charge , patch , projectile . Get it "dialed in" before making adjustments to the sights . :thumbsup:

 

[R.M.]

Many shooters have a tendency to snatch the shot as they pass by the intended point of aim. The resulting jerk on the trigger just throws your shot off.
As has been mentioned, gentle increase of trigger pressure causing the gun to fire expectantly will give you a better shot. We all wobble. Accept it. When you see your wobble at it's smallest, increase your trigger pressure. If the wobble is starting to get bigger, put the gun down and recuperate, then start again.
Also as has been mentioned. Front sight, front sight, front sight. Being able to see your sight alignment is much more important then where it is on the paper. If your looking at the target, you won't be able to see your sight alignment errors.
Consistent one handed pistol shooting takes time to learn. Enjoy the journey.

 

[norfolk shooter]

ive dicided that i will be shooting the pistol once if not twice a week. i also need to start thinking up names for my guns :shake:

also might it be an idea to remove the rear sight??

 

[crockett]

I'd shoot from a rest- first get the gun checked out- then worry about your shooting ability. If- from a rest- the shots are still going all over the place then I'd look first at the patches you are using and think about a thicker patch-tighter fit. Try different patch lubes. You need to likewise consider the powder charge. Make sure you are seating all balls to the same depth. To start- I'd swab between each shot. Maybe think about wads. With a wad, you will put in the charge, then the wad, then a patched ball. Sometimes- not always- a wad will cushion the ball and give better accuracy.

 

[Zonie]

Several things come to mind that might help you with your Charles Moore pistol.
Here's a link to your pistol http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_18/pistols-charles-moore.html

Do NOT remove your rear sight.

Your pistols sights sound like they are set up for a "target hold" or view when the gun is properly aimed.
This method of sighting requires aiming the guns sights at the bottom of the bullseye, not at the center.
The proper view with sights like this has the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sight and centered in the notch. The black area of the target will be floating above the top of the rear sight, just touching it.

While many, including myself prefer the sights to be aimed exactly at the point where the impact is desired many target shooters prefer this "6 o'clock hold".

According to the Pedersoli web site your pistol has a "Single Set" trigger. Are you using it in the set condition?

When used in the set condition it takes very little effort to pull it back to make the gun fire. This helps you avoid moving the gun off target when you fire the gun.

The set trigger has another useful feature.
When it is set and then pulled it will make an audible "click" sound.
Of course you won't hear the "click" when the gun is loaded but you can hear it when the gun is not loaded.

If your pistol has this set trigger you "set" it with the guns hammer either in the fired position or in the "full cock" position by pushing the trigger forward until it latches.
Then by pulling it to the rear you will hear the click and the hammer will fall.

NEVER set and release your guns set trigger when the hammer is at "half cock" position. Doing this can break the locks sear or the tumbler.

Anyway, you can use this set trigger to improve your shooting by first, making absolutly sure your gun is unloaded.

Make sure the hammer is in the "fired" position and set the trigger to the set condition.

Position your body so that a line from shoulder to shoulder would be at about 45 degrees from the target.

Grasp the guns grip with moderate pressure. The gun when it is fired is not going to jump out of your hand. (Yes, I know it is unloaded now but this is important to remember when your actually shooting it.)

Align the sights with the imaginary target on the wall aiming at the bottom of it as I mentioned before.

At this point I must tell you something about precision shooting with a pistol. The sights will weave back and forth across the bottom of the target. This is natural and it is impossible to make it stop.
The thing to try to do is to minimize the movement while watching it.

When the sights approach the centered position lightly squeeze just your trigger finger until you hear the "click". Do NOT squeeze your whole hand when pulling the trigger. Doing so will move the gun off of the point of aim.

As long as the hammer is in the "fired" or down position you can repeatedly set and release your set triggers without harming the gun so practice using this method as often as you can.
It will greatly improve your shooting.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

With all that has been said already, I would add that you begin with one powder charge, starting with approximately 20 gr FFG blackpowder. Shoot from a sand bag rest. I would place the target out about twenty yards to start.
Hold your sights at one spot on the target. Fire five rounds, all being sighted on the same spot, no matter where on the paper you are hitting. That will tell you which way you need to adjust the sights. Make your adjustment and fire five more rounds. Continue until you get the pistol to hit where you want, with the same sight picture (the spot you are holding on target).
After you have gotten the pistol to hit where you want, then you can experiment with changing the powder charge, either increasing or decreasing the charge 5 gr at a time. I would not shoot more than 25 gr in the pistol myself, it might be a waste of powder. Look to see what the suggested charges are in the loading data that should have come with the pistol and use that information as a starting point. Never ever overcharge the pistol. Later you can move the target out to about twenty- five yards and see where it hits. Start the sighting process all over. It might sound basic, but keep notes regarding your powder charges and distances. You can raise or lower the point of impact on the target just by increasing or decreasing the charge slightly 5 gr at a time. It really is pretty simple when you figure things out. Keeping notes will help in that. I have notes inside my shooting box, different distances equal different powder charges. I never have to change my sights or where I aim/ hold on the target.
Continue to shoot from a sandbag until you are comfortable with the pistol and know what it is capable of doing. Then work on your unsupported shooting. You won't have to worry about changing the powder charges because you will have by then worked all that out.
Enjoy your pistol :thumbsup:

 

[norfolk shooter]

if i up the charge would the point of impact go higher or lower?? as at tghe moment the shots are about a foot and a half too high!!

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

What is the charge you are using and what is the caliber of the pistol? If it is too much, then I would decrease it by 5 gr to see where it hits. To be consistent you have to do this from a sand bag rest. Use the same point of aim for each shot. Move your sights in the direction you want the ball to go only after you shoot about five shots (average, it can also be done in three shots). Keep the target reasonably close, 20 yards or so. Make sure the top of the front sight is level with the top of the rear sight. Have equal light on either side of the front sight post and keep it centered in the rear sight. Focus on the front sight, keep it clear and crisp as you press off the shot. Don't over grip or under grip the pistol (reaching around the stock too far, or not reaching far enough). That will tend to throw the shot off to one side or the other. Keep the barrel in line with your forearm.
Don't grip the stock too hard. Hold it firm like you are shaking a good friend's hand. Most of the strength will be in the middle two fingers for holding the pistol grip.

For trigger control, you can place a small coin on the top barrel flat while you dry practise (empty pistol)your trigger manipulation. Keep the coin on top of the barrel through each dry practise shot. Press the trigger smoothly and evenly straight back to your shoulder. Avoid side to side pressure on the trigger as that will help throw the shot to the side. After you "fire" your shot, hold the trigger all the way back at the end of it's travel for a count of two, then release the trigger. Don't slap the trigger and don't break finger contact with the trigger. Do that without dropping the coin. That will help with your follow through.
Don't forget, sight alignment, sight picture, grip, stance, trigger control, breathing and follow through. It is simple if you break it down.
Just more stuff for you to think about. Stick with it. :thumbsup:
I forgot to add in answer to your question, if you decrease your charge, the shot should drop. How much... the pistol will let you know.

 

[norfolk shooter]

its a .45 and im useing 18 grains of tripple 7. i have a feeling thats its too much

 

[zimmerstutzen]

One of the toughest things to do when doing any kind of pistol shooting is hand conditioning. The fingers that grip the pistol must do so firmly but not so tightly that they fatigue, tremble etc. The trigger finger must be treated and controlled as a separate part of the body from the fingers that grip the pistol. With a rifle if you squeeze your entire hand as you pull the trigger the effect on accuracy is not as dramatic as with a pistol. Trying to hold a front heavy pistol also increases fatigue and tremble. I have a traditions trapper which is so darn front heavy that I have never been able to shoot a decent group. It takes a bit of concentration and practice to treat the trigger finger as a separate entity from the gripping fingers

 

[R.M.]

I use 25gr of 777 in my ROA 45 revolver, so your 18gr isn't too high in my opinion.

 

[norfolk shooter]

well im going to try a lower load tomorrow anyway and see how i get on. what distance are you shooting at with 25gr of 777??? im at 25 yards. i have now set the triger to go off with a light brush and i have been doiong the coin thing most of the day as i work from home.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

In reading your first post regarding your pistol again, you mentioned keeping the top of the front sight post at the bottom of the rear sight V notch. That will make you shot go low. Double check your sights and make sure the top of the front sight is level with the top of the rear sight when aiming. Start from there.
Five shots with 15 gr powder at 20 yards.
Five shots with 20 gr powder at 20 yards.
Five shots with 25 gr powder at 20 yards.
Be consistent in your loading process, use the same amount of pressure on the ball when seating it on the powder charge. Firmly seat the ball all the way down on top of the powder, don't crush the powder.
Depending on your barrel, you might want to wipe the bore every couple of shots. Maybe wipe the bore when you increase the powder charge. So that would be five shots, wipe the bore. Five shots more, wipe the bore.
Put a mark on your target large enough to see easily from the shooting bench. That could be an inch square of tape or just a black pen mark. Don't make it too big.
Hold your sights on that mark for each shot no matter where the ball hits. That will give you the direction you need to adjust your sights to hit where you want.
Do all of your shooting from a sand bag rest.
Keep notes on the powder charges and where the ball hits.
Let us know how you make out.

 

[norfolk shooter]

ive been ramming that ball right down, i may have been crushing the powder!! what happens if the powder gets crushed??

 

[Zonie]

If your pistol uses a percussion ignition ramming the powder hard should make it burn more consistently. It should not cause a problem.

Based on your statement that the groups were hitting 1 1/2 feet high and the range was 25 yards I ran some estimates of how much your rear sight would have to be lowered (based on an 11" sight radius).

The answer is .220". I doubt that your whole rear sight is that tall which leads me to believe something else is happening here.

Either the gun is defective or your doing something to cause the high impacts.

Some people, especially people who are new to shooting will move their hand as the gun is discharging.
"Heeling" or pushing against the anticipated recoil will cause the muzzle to rise as the gun fires.
I don't know if this is the problem but you may find the photo below of some use.

The target in the picture shows the "heeling" hitting up and right because it is for a right handed shooter. A left handed shooter would hit high and left.

If you suspect something is wrong with your pistol, ask someone who you know is a good shot at the range to shoot your pistol.
If they are having the same high hits on the target that you are you can suspect the gun as the problem and attempt to return it to the place you bought it from.

 

[norfolk shooter]

Zoine, buddy i think your bang on. thanks for the target from that i have seen that im breaking my wrist up and heeling a touch. just wondering how would one stop this??

 

[Zonie]

Quit "guessing" when the gun will fire.

Hold the gun level grasping it as others above have said to do and tell yourself, "I'm going to let it do its own thing without my interference."

Then, let the gun recoil to its hearts content.
It won't hurt you and it won't try to jump out of your hand.

Because of your snug grip it will rotate your hand and forearm upward so let it.

In other words, do not try to resist the forces of nature.