Secondhand Pedersolis

[jimhallam]

Oldeyes wrote "It would seem that we need to take steps to increase the popularity of muzzleloading and stop the decline but just how we can do that I’m not sure. Any ideas?"
and then Feltwad said "yes it has decreased mainly because there is only one organisation (in the UK) that caters for it and that is mostly rifle and pistol." There is, as he said, some ML Shotgun but our weakness is that we are SO fragmented --- individual Clubs and people doing their own thing, and often the principal organisations being focussed on the International Teams, rather than developing practices which would attract the vast majority. Our NRA (founded 1860) is involved with ML shooting and also "Historic Arms" Competitions, as is the HBSA (Historical Breechloading Smallarms Association), and the NSRA (National Smallbore Rifle Association) used to put on an Open Meeing in August, called the "Society of Miniature Rifle Clubs" Meeting -- now run by the HBSA.

I set up the main Historic Arms Open Meetings years ago and wrote the R&Rs, on behalf of
(1) the now defunct National Pistol Association, but they were struck a deadly blow after the Dunblane killings when political correctness and opportunism caused the loss of BL pistol shooting) -- the NRA now runs what remains, as the "Phoenix Meeting";
(2) the NRA as part of their "Historic Arms Resource Centre", with their "Imperial Historic Arms Meeting" being part of their main Open Meeting at Bisley;
(3) the South London Rifle Club (founded 1874) -- the Centenary of their Revolver Section in 1886 eventually being taken over by the NRA as the "Trafalgar Meeting" (nearest weekend to Trafalgar Day - 21st October) -- where there were matches from 10 to 900 yards; sadly the last meeting of our Revolver Section was 13th April 1997 -- 111 years TO THE DAY of law-abiding target-shooting.
(4) The SMRC Meeting referred to above.

For a number of years I have been trying to resurrect ML "handgun" shooting, with the help of a small group of volunteers from the Surrey Branch of the MLAGB (Muzzle-Loaders' Association of Great Britain) and the SLRC. The main problem is that now in the UK the main focus of the MLAGB is the MLAIC International course -- best 10 of 13 shots in 30 minutes, 25metres --- which many ML people don't shoot becuase it's a bit like watching paint dry. Don't get me wrong -- there is a place for precision shooting (and for International Teams) but if you want a tall pyrmaid you need a wide base. The old NPA succeeded because it encompassed precision, UIT (international shooting union), Service and Police Pistol courses, long-range pistol (up top 300 yards -- including ML revolver!) and Practical Pistol. It allowed every type of "handgun" and every level of shooter -- from the top to those who wanted "a bit of safe fun" in their home ranges.

I really can't see WHY the "powers-that-be" in the MLAGB and the NRA won't adopt a system which allows --
(a) different classifications of ML "repeating pistols" from "STANDARD" (a 19thC design), through "TARGET" (improved versions allowed but offhand - one-handed -- only) to "FREE" (anything muzzle-loading, 2 hands allowed) and in addition the "MODERN" class which is for smokeless powder conversions, ML revolvers built on DA frames and the "Patriot" pistol (with a "harmonica" magazine);
(b) Offhand (one-handed) AND Supported (two-handed) entries -- - in separate classes of course;
(c) Black Powder AND / OR BP substitutes -- many ranges not being able to use BP for various reasons;
(d) Different cadences of fire in 5-shot series --- Slow-fire (3 minutes), Timed-fire (1 minute), Rapid-fire (30 seconds), "Bobber" (a pre WW1 course on turning targets -- one shot per exposure) and "Surrenden" (again pre-WW1, named from Walter Winans' house -- where the time taken to fire the series is subrtacted from the target score) and so on ... ... ...

That would have NO effect upon those who wanted to continue the MLAIC Courses but would offer a wide menu for Clubs to shoot.
So far we have had well over 1000 match entries at the Open Meetings which we have run at Bisley --
and we KNOW that only a small percentage of shooters are prepared enter a "Competition" or to drive any distance.

In the meantime, as we have all experienced, numbers shooting have decreased because the older people are dropping out and the young seem to prefer exercising two thumbs on an iPad ;-(

Still -- we will keep trying until Father Time's sickle falls.

Happy New Year to all --- if you are going to the February Las Vegas Antique Arms Show do look me up -- as I will be bringing some more of my collection to move on before someone else in the family has to deal with it. Sadly it looks as if the USA will be the repository of most of the rarer ML revolvers from my collection as few Brits want to preserve their heritage.

Jim Hallam (V-P, NRA of the GB; V-P Emeritus, HBSA)

 

[TFoley]

A VERY good post, Mr Hallam, and a good summation of the 'where we are at' right now in UK with regard to BP shooting sports. The very real problem about 'Brits [not] wanting to preserve their heritage lies in the fact that there are less and less people prepared to fork out large sums of money on something they can only look at, albeit lovingly. I'd buy heritage handguns in numbers IF I could also shoot them without having to have each and every one of them treated like a modern high-calibre rifle - YOU know what I'm talking about. Also add that some counties, including mine, actively put limitations on the number of Section 1 firearms that you can own. If I want to buy another gun, I have to sell one that I already own.

Good luck with the show sales, and thank goodness there is still a place in the world like the US of A, where anybody who abides by the law has his right to own a firearm protected by a written constitution.

 

[Barrie Dale]

I am also in Canada and have nothing but success in getting new members all the time to join our sport. Its NOT de-clining at my club at all or in my general area. I maintain around 60 members at all times thru-out the year.

 

[Bledfor Days]

Prices aren't that low yet here in Canada. Safari Arms, Traditions, CVA, Hawken style rifles are getting as low as $150 - $200 cdn. Lyman Great Plains rifles fetch almost twice that. Not sure about Pedersoli's. I don't see them on the buy and sells too often.
What is common is people trying to flog rifles that were left uncleaned for 20 yrs and describing them as excellent condition. Lots of those up here.

 

[Barrie Dale]

I carry a small Barrel light with me at all times in case I run across a good buy. It clearly shows me the condition of the barrel and wether the seller is telling me stories. I have caught many liars this way and tell them so as well. I will offer a even lower price if they lie too much.

 

[Rudyard]

Sad times indeed . When I & no doubt Feltwad & Pukka started the MLAGB had mostly younger members , speaking for the Sheffield Branch at least but I think in general . Now we are all ageing & the modern equivelant seem not interested . Plus the ever anti gun polititions have done their level best to kill off any interest in shooting & the gun trade .

Now even New Zealand has a rabidly anti gun government . . I never so much bothered about values rather the guns themselves . But supply & demand is what will apply as in all things . My market for new guns was global but mostly the US & Canada . Muzzle loaders tend to be a thrifty lot .But there was allways the discerning who knew what they wanted and so that was my market (.I was a good customer for me too !.) Rudyard

 

[Barrie Dale]

We have at least 5 members in my group that build their own very high quality rifles. They are all very fine craftsmen. I have had the pleasure of owning some nice hand made rifles over the years and still get to shoot all different models of them.