Safety Question

[longcruise]

Well, here's what happened to that guy. He pulled the rifle through the brush and caught the hammer. Brush let go and the hammer fell. Still would have been ok but for letting the rifle slide back in his hand. He says he still doesn't know what happened but I don't know how he could not get it.

I think this same thing could happen if carrying the rifle at halfcock.

I have always carried capped and at halfcock even when a little tiny voice in the far back reaches of my brain thought I should question it. Some will read through this thread and say something like "I always done it this way and I'll keep on doing it". Not me, I plan to take action on this.

I like the Kap Kover and if the piece of leather doesn't meet with satisfaction I'll try that.

I have trained many family members in ML and need to add this to their education.

So, old dog learning a new trick. One of the best and most informative safety discussions ever on this forum.

 

[Zonie]

Well, here's what happened to that guy. He pulled the rifle through the brush and caught the hammer. Brush let go and the hammer fell. Still would have been ok but for letting the rifle slide back in his hand. He says he still doesn't know what happened but I don't know how he could not get it.

I think this same thing could happen if carrying the rifle at halfcock.

I have always carried capped and at halfcock even when a little tiny voice in the far back reaches of my brain thought I should question it. Some will read through this thread and say something like "I always done it this way and I'll keep on doing it". Not me, I plan to take action on this.

I like the Kap Kover and if the piece of leather doesn't meet with satisfaction I'll try that.

I have trained many family members in ML and need to add this to their education.

So, old dog learning a new trick. One of the best and most informative safety discussions ever on this forum.

Right you are if the gun your carrying has set triggers in it.

When a gun has set triggers, the lock will have a "fly" in it. It is the job of the fly, to allow the hammer on the gun to fall completely to the nipple if it is released from a point above "half cock" without getting caught in the half cock notch while the hammer is falling.
Because of this, if the hammer is raised very far above "half cock" it's sear will jump over the half cock notch and the gun will fire.

This isn't a big problem for guns with a simple, single trigger if the lock doesn't have a fly in the tumbler but most of the rifles people hunt with do have a fly in their locks.

Just something to remember while your walking around with a loaded gun.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I carry my cap guns hammer/s down on the cap. A failing half cock notch from a knock could cause ignition.
Hammer on cap would need a fair old percussion to ignite a cap.
Hammer down on the cap has a slight advantage from brush riding over it as opposed to half cock where upon it resembles a hook.
Any gap of air between hammer and cap is always going to be more dangerous than no gap at all!

 

[Carbon 6]

You can put a thick leather patch over the nipple that contacts the half-cock hammer. Cushions the nipple against accidental ignition and keeps it in place also. Attach the patch to the trigger guard with a short leather lace. Much like a hammer stall on a flintlock.

I tested that theory by placing a nipple in a vice and then placing a cap on it, then I placed thick .20 leather over the nipple. I then struck it with a hammer with force representative of a fall or stumble. On the 5th hit the primer went off.

 

[rafterob]

Hmm. Dixie used to sell those, I wonder if they still do?

 

[renegadehunter]

I'm surprised by the guy in the video saying he didn't know what happened. I'm sorry for the guy, but either he was never taught proper safety or has become extremely complacent from handling guns over the years.
We all know that if a hammer gets pulled back and then released, before it reaches full, it will slam back down. What surprises me is the way he was carrying it. Packing a loaded gun with a carry method that puts your hand over the end of the muzzle...wow. This is ignoring two basic rules of gun handling 1. Always point it in a safe direction; 2. Always assume it could go off at any time.
I once saw an accidental discharge happen to a guy I was pheasant hunting with. The cause of the gun going off was stupid and 100% his fault...but he had the barrel pointed in a safe direction and no one was injured. That's why the above two rules go hand in hand and MUST always be followed.

 

[user 36911]

I should have added more to my post saying half cock with a proper fitting cap.

I'm a still hunter. So, when i'm hunting i'm holding the gun with two hands in the ready to shoot position. No way for anything to catch the hammer. I'm in a position to make a quick shot. Which is common when still hunting.

When i'm hiking to a still hunting section the hammer is down with no cap.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Perhaps take note of the position the camera was in at the time of the incident. You know that someone was behind that camera...
I watched this happen with my brother while watching the episode on tv. We both shoot muzzleloaders and neither could believe what we just saw. Both of us always questioned the carry this host uses, as it was not the way we were taught. This confirmed our fears.
Walk

 

[longcruise]

Maybe the video was simulated after the fact?

 

[user 36911]

Maybe the video was simulated after the fact?

No, he still has his finger. It also looks like the hammer is down on the cap and not at half cock.

 

[hanshi]

With a flintlock I put the cock on half cock and a leather hammer stall on the frizzen. In a stand I just pull the cock to full cock.

I don't hunt with caplocks although I did at one time. I seem to recall the hammer staying at half cock with rubber or leather over the capped nipple.

 

[Robwright]

You don't grab a gun by the muzzle and pull on it!

 

[longcruise]

You don't grab a gun by the muzzle and pull on it!

He probably wasn't exactly doing that. It looked like his hand slipped forward as he pulled it.

Keep in mind that the video is not an actual record of the incident. It was reenacted for the production. Notice that his grip and placement over his shoulder is not as it would actually be carried. The rifle would balance at the point where the sight is located and that point would be on his shoulder. Look at how he is positioning it. It would not be balanced at all and would be very difficult to carry this way. I have the same rifle and have been carrying it since 1980. I have carried it hundreds of miles and often on the shoulder muzzle forward and always so if someone is behind me.

The video doesn't match the story IMO. Kinda makes me wonder what really happened!

 

[Stantheman86]

The nipple protector on the chains for the P53 Enfield you can get for $10 off Ebay will fit over a cap. Hammer down on that , there's no way that gun is firing.

 

[THBailey]

The nipple protector on the chains for the P53 Enfield you can get for $10 off Ebay will fit over a cap. Hammer down on that , there's no way that gun is firing.

We made our own generally copying this concept. We trim the last bit off of a 9mm luger brass with a tubing cutter, cut through the part we took off to make a little brass strap, and solder that back on to the brass to create a lanyard loop. With a short lanyard we put it on the trigger guard. Not too traditional the way we do it, but we hunt a ton, and when it comes to safety form follows function.

 

[Griz44Mag]

The nipple protector on the chains for the P53 Enfield you can get for $10 off Ebay will fit over a cap. Hammer down on that , there's no way that gun is firing.

Why didn't I think of that....?

 

[user 36911]

The only thing I don't like about anything hanging off the gun is i'm a still hunter. I try to keep all movement to a minimum. Anything swinging under the gun will be seen by the game.

 

[Griz44Mag]

The only thing I don't like about anything hanging off the gun is i'm a still hunter. I try to keep all movement to a minimum. Anything swinging under the gun will be seen by the game.

you could NOT attach it to the gun and just drop it in the pouch when you get to your hunting, sitting or hiding place....
It would be just for travel time. (on foot or wheels)

 

[Stantheman86]

What is that a popped cap inside a nipple protector?

 

[Okie Hog]

You don't grab a gun by the muzzle and pull on it!

Bingo!!!

i don't change methods that have worked well for me because some careless hunter had a wreck.