Rounded lands or grooves at muzzle?

[MSK]

I have read with interest the numerous threads listed by Claude on muzzle coning and anything I could find on the net, but for the life of me, I cannot distill the neat looking round filed edges at the muzzles of original rifles such as that in the photo. It gives the muzzle a cool "star-like" effect. Note that this treatment is NOT the fancier "hiney muzzle" type muzzle found on Yaegers which was clearly decorative.

My questions are:

1) Are those part of an original coning process or was this simply decorative?
2) Was the rounded filing done to the grooves or the lands?

Please help! I honestly can't find anything definitive and absolutely love this look.

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Smollett

 

[ssettle]

That is a decorative touch done to the grooves of the barrel. It is not coning. It does look cool but doesn't have any real function other than maybe holding the patch so it stays centered. :idunno:

 

[Spikebuck]

A recently acquired Virginia of mine has this feature.

DSCN1147 by mdheaser

I don't know if this is called different things, but Track of the Wolf called it a "decorative rose crown."

Mine is filed on the lands, which means the very muzzle is now the full width of the grooves side-to-side. Because of this, I have found that it also serves a practical function as with just that little bit of help at the start of the muzzle, I can get a fairly snug patch/ball combo in far enough with just thumb pressure that I can cut the patch and avoid using the short starter to set it muzzle-level first.

DSCN1148 by mdheaser

 

[MSK]

I'd also heard that there was a functional aspect. While many of the muzzle filing examples are indeed pleasing to the eye, there are others (Jim Bridger's rifle for example), which are clearly meant for something other than aesthetics.

Smollett

 

[galamb]

I can't speak specifically to the Bridger rifle (have not heard one way or the other on that particular rifle), but there are a number of Hawken rifles which have a "treatment" done to the barrels.

Inspection has revealed that they are coned, although not in fashion currently seen (modern).

Here is a (paraphrased) description of the process as noted.

From the breech until 9 1/2" prior to the muzzle the bore tapers (no description of the measurement of the taper), then a "apparent" 8" choke exists - the last 1 1/2" of bore, to the muzzle flares by .0005" until the last 1/4" where an additional flare of .002" is cut "giving the impression of a funnel".

And yes, talking about "rifles" here, not shotguns.

The author of the piece notes that initially it was assumed that this funneling effect was the result of ramrod wear over the service life, but when they examined a number of barrels (which had this treatment), they were noted to be uniform which indicated that they were in fact "built that way on purpose".

Unfortunately, I only have excerpts from the original and can't really provide more than the observations above.

The author suggests that this not only improved the accuracy (any style of choke would do that) of the shot but also eased loading (which is primarily why rifles are coned)

Perhaps if LaBonte happens on this thread he can add some detail?

 

[Stophel]

It was common practice 200+ years ago to crown the bore with a narrow bevel crown and then file the individual "crowns" for each rifling groove (as seen on Tom Curran's gun in the original post). This is S.O.P. on most German rifles and what few American rifles I have seen (or seen photos of) where the muzzle of the gun is still in any kind of shape where you can even tell. Usually, they're beat all to ---- and you can't tell what the muzzle looked like originally.

Coned muzzles in the 18th century were not so common, but not "rare" either, at least on German rifles. Where I have seen it, the bore will be coned back about an inch or so (I have been told that on occasion, it will extend several inches farther back). Now, the bore is not simply ground away, making shallow or non-existent grooves at the muzzle, like what people do today. No, not only is the bore flared out, but the rifling grooves are flared out to match. These will usually show no bevel crown at the muzzle, from what I have seen. I would be willing to bet a dollar that it was done by driving in a tapered, piloted drift to swedge open the dead soft iron barrel, which could be cleaned up afterwards with a tool like the "coning tools" people use today. But that's just conjecture on my part.

 

[Zonie]

Unless all of those sharp edges are rounded off, I call it "Patch Cutter Crown".

It looks like it would do sort of a Pinking Shears job on a newly loaded patch. :rotf: :hmm:

 

[M. De Land]

That was exactly what I was thinking when I saw it! If it doesn't outright cut the patch then it most certainly will weaken the weave as it strains over the high points before sliding down inside.
Looks like a trouble maker to me for the sake of being different.
Also makes it much easier to bugger the crown if dropped end on or the muzzle is accidentally speared into the ground from a fall.

 

[Spikebuck]

Unless all of those sharp edges are rounded off, I call it "Patch Cutter Crown".

It looks like it would do sort of a Pinking Shears job on a newly loaded patch. :rotf: :hmm:

Nary a problem with patches. No rips,tears,holes, or any signs of stress to them at all.

 

[MSK]

The way it was recently explained to me (and as many of you already know), the coning makes it so the correct size patch/ball combo for the bore is a relatively loose fit at the muzzle. The individual "notches" then cut into the muzzle (sometimes fancy sometimes not) are there to guide the patch evenly around the ball and into the bore. As such there isn't enough pressure to cut or overly stress the material. Since I'd been made aware of this interesting muzzle detail, I've noticed it on many original early 19th century rifles, especially Plains and New England examples.

I haven't tried loading with such a muzzle yet, but I will soon.

Smollett

 

[M. De Land]

Nah, see those land edges sticking up between the muzzle scalps in the groove. They are full bore diameter and will hook stress a tight patch to some degree.
Coning is a gradual even taper at a given angle from the muzzle crown to a certain depth in the bore to facilitate thumb seating and dispense with a short starter.
The muzzle in the picture is some ones idea of decorative art in my view.
It also takes half the land in the scalp.

 

[Shifty]

I have coned all of my MLs with a Joe Woods type tool ,it makes a taper cone ,makes loading easier and has not affected accuracy at all in mine although some say it does.The coning you are talking of that i have seen serve both for decoration and ease of loading but mostly used on Fullstock type guns or Jaegers,the formere on Hawkens or halfstocks,I guess mostly for function not looks.
I think some one on this site sells a coning tool similar to the Woods.

I think there was a article in Muzzle Blast that showed how to do the Decorative Style Cone with a needle file.

 

[Mickc01]

I like the look if it a lot. Thanks for posting....Mick C