Round ball weight margins relative to diameter

[Dusty_Traveler]

When weighing round balls, what are your go/nogo weight margins for small ball vs larger ball?

I've been going through all the RB I have cast. Weighing and rejecting what is +/- 1gr beyond the average, both ways. I started at the largest, .720, and I've made it down to .440. I still have several calibers to go.

Do I need to narrow my G-NG margins once the calibers start getting smaller? Any idea of the approximate diameter that this starts becoming more relevant?

What have you had luck with? .5gr? 1gr? Am I overthinking this?

 

[Grimord]

I use +/- 1.0 grain for calibers of 45 and larger. For the smaller calibers I use +/- 0.5 grain.

 

[longcruise]

What have you had luck with? .5gr? 1gr? Am I overthinking this?

I would break it down to a percentage of the average weight.

1 grain is only .0043 of a 230 grain 535 ball but it's more and more significant as you go down in ball size.

Disclaimer: Above advice offered by someone who has only rarely weighed any projectiles.

 

[necchi]

I cast my own, so anything out of tolerance is simply fodder for the next casting session.
That said, the largest I cast are .535, then down through the 50's too .440.
I keep all of mine within +/-0.5,, within that 1grn margin. I usually get a cull rate of 15% or less.
However that is just my preference,, it is commonly excepted that +/- 1rgn is fine. If I cast those big boy's I think 1grn would be Ok,

 

[Pete G]

Take a batch of your rejects and carefully shoot several groups. You will probably find that your groups are just fine at 100 yds. or less.

 

[necchi]

Take a batch of your rejects and carefully shoot several groups. You will probably find that your groups are just fine at 100 yds. or less.

Yeah there's always those.
Keeping tolerance tight is really just a matter of eliminating a variable of the shooting load combination. If all else is near the same, the shooter can only blame himself for the missed shot. It's a matter really only needed by those that are hunting the elusive "X" at 100yrds.
It's all part of an individuals shooting/learning development.
And those tight tolerances are not needed for common plinking or harvesting game in the field at all.
It can go a long ways in confidence though,,

 

[tenngun]

In near fifty years I’ve never weighed a ball.
Inspect them as they come from the mould. Smooth they go in the bag, wrinkled or frosty they go back in the pot

 

[NorthFork]

I use +/- 1.0 grain for calibers of 45 and larger. For the smaller calibers I use +/- 0.5 grain.

Same

 

[Brokennock]

For my .595, .600, and .610 balls I don't really "reject" any unless they are more than 5 grains too light compared to what a pure lead ball of the size should weigh.
I weigh them and divide them into separate containers each container holding balls within 2 grains of eachother. I save the heaviest (I often have balls coming in slightly heavier than the "pure lead ball weight" chart indicates) for hunting season the lightest for plinking. The others for practicing my shooting positions and loading from the bag..... Which all makes it sound like I get to shoot a lot more than I do
I hunt, and while I don't except load combos from my smoothbores that won't shoot less than 4" at! 50 yards,,, I'm also not looking to cut Xs in a match.

 

[necchi]

In near fifty years I’ve never weighed a ball.

And in 14yrs I've never seen you talk about formal competition.
You just say it's not needed. Well, maybe you are the next Ned Roberts re-incarnate, I can not deni the skill of a natural shooter,,(I have seen it)
,, but most folks here, have various skill sets.
So It's two different worlds with the same goal, Helping others,,
In all these years, why do you choose too deni the existence of those controlled variables that can help those that don't have your skill?

The simple elimination of all possible variables with a persons load,, doesn't mean he's going to shoot better. It means that those things are stasis. Once the shooter understands that,, that person can work on his/her personal shooting skills.
That stuff is beyond the basic load isn't it?

I mean honest, is every new shooter that comes here supposed to be happy with hitting a pop can at 50yrds? Just so someone else can say they can hit one at 75yrds?
But here we are again, "Never weigh a ball"!! "It don't matter!"

 

[tenngun]

And in 14yrs I've never seen you talk about formal competition.
You just say it's not needed. Well, maybe you are the next Ned Roberts re-incarnate, I can not deni the skill of a natural shooter,,(I have seen it)
,, but most folks here, have various skill sets.
So It's two different worlds with the same goal, Helping others,,
In all these years, why do you choose too deni the existence of those controlled variables that can help those that don't have your skill?

The simple elimination of all possible variables with a persons load,, doesn't mean he's going to shoot better. It means that those things are stasis. Once the shooter understands that,, that person can work on his/her personal shooting skills.
That stuff is beyond the basic load isn't it?

I mean honest, is every new shooter that comes here supposed to be happy with hitting a pop can at 50yrds? Just so someone else can say they can hit one at 75yrds?
But here we are again, "Never weigh a ball"!! "It don't matter!"

I don’t deny it, weigh if you want, in fact I have said in numerous post your best will come from the most uniform loading.
Pre weigh your powder and put it in little glass tubes
Measure the amount of lube on every patch, experiment with different caps if you’re shooting a cap gun.
Have the best sights you can get.
Even the most traditional ml can be made more accurate by the addition of some little tricks, and you sure will out shoot me
That’s a truism. If each charge is 70 grains three f +- .5 grains and your ball is 178 grains +- .5 grains you will here your most consistent load
Should you have micro adjustable sights you will have your best open sighting system, assuming you don’t want a peep or scope.
Boone had a simple v and thin blade, Meek didn’t carry a balance scale, York didn’t have the most sophisticated sights on his rifle gun.
Ml are after all primitive weapons
In the deer woods there is no difference between the weighted ball and the cast and inspected. The deer won’t know
Neither will the squirrel or rabbit
On a woods walk most targets will score the same
Plinking with your friends there will be no advantage
Only in a formal shoot at an x can it make any difference, and if that shots off hand chances are other variables will be more important then real consistent ball weight.
In ml ranges the consistency might look impressive but in fact have no practical advantage
This is a smoothbore target at fifty yards
A Patched ball vs bare and wads. The patched looks tighter but infact the five shot groups are about the same, and any one shot would put venison on the table. Both are pretty much equal, 4”x3” vs 4”x2”

 

[necchi]

Uhm,(?)
(ya missed the "X"(?) (with all those shot's).

 

[tenngun]

Uhm,(?)
(ya missed the "X"(?) (with all those shot's).

Sure did, the great advantage of a smoothbore is if you hit you get a chance to give your best ‘yor really have to know your gun to get a smoothbore to hit, if you miss you can say, hey it’s a smoothie what ya expect…. Win win
Missing the x would have put Bambi in the freezer, or rang the gong on a woods walk.
Here is a smoothbore target, but against it the most precision and carefully loaded rifle gun could shoot no better at fifty yards.
What’s that I hear? A dull chuckle, that from a rest you get one ragged hole at fifty yards and off hand at least a clover leaf?
That’s fine shooting, but only counts if x is the target, and 99% of our shooting an ml x isn’t the target, a gong or deer heart, maybe squirrel head is. And in that case a fifty five x is the same score as my 47 or 42

 

[Howard Pippin]

Apparently there's many different reasons that we go out and play with muzzle loaders. If I was just interested in having one that would shoot, there probably would be no reason to go out to our local target range, off and on, and try out something different as far as lubes or perhaps a different designed bullet. I do have a r.e.a.l. bullet mold, a mini ball mold and a round ball mold. Every muzzleloader I have shoots and shoots probably better than I can shoot, most of the time. My nearest active club is 45 miles away and they have a muzzleloader match about three times every summer and I try to attend. There we do very good precise shooting at a turkey target, some off-hand targets that I'm very poor at, may-be a small trail walk. If I'm only gonna shoot at these, perhaps 50 round balls would be a lot to have. It's the fun I get of shooting against myself with different loads different distances different conditions in trying to see if I can do better. That includes weighting balls and measuring powder as accurately as I can.

 

[necchi]

and 99% of our shooting an ml x isn’t the target, a gong or deer heart, maybe squirrel head is. And in that case a fifty five x is the same score as my 47 or 42

Exactly , and so true. I was just wondering why you always advocate "never weigh the ball" when the topic comes up?
I do enjoy hunting the "X" while at the range and I use my 54 when hunting squirrel, when I harvest my mind pictures that "X" right next to the squirrels head, I don't damage any meat with that large caliber while hunting small game.

 

[tenngun]

I guess I see it as the antithesis of ml
We can improve on an ml and keep it traditional, or traditional ish.
I don’t think weighing projectile came to be a thing until after the age of ML
It would be a neat exercise to do a double blind study. Half shooters getting inspected ball half getting weighed ball, and no body, the guy handing out the ball and the shooter and see if in ten shooters if they increased their scores significantly vs other variables
Back in 2003 some folk tried to recreate the Wright flyer. The original plane was a kite with a motor, they knew how to correct its stability problems ….. but if they did they wouldn’t have the Wright flyer
And yes my position is hypothetical as we all fudge on something.
Ml isn’t rocket science, well it kinda is, but it’s a seat of your pants sport
IMHO

 

[necchi]

Understood. Thank You, @tenngun, for all that you share with us, honest.

 

[bpd303]

I don’t think weighing projectile came to be a thing until after the age of ML

My grandfather taught me to cast round balls back in the 50s using a lead pot & dipper. He never weighed any that he cast, only inspected them for flaws. He could head shoot squirrels with his 36 cal Ohio flintlock from the tallest trees.