Round Ball Vs Conical in 44 NMA

[Eterry]

I recently picked up a New Model Army in 44. I found a round ball mold, and the weather is perfect for casting. But I have a .452 180gr round nose mold for a 45 acp.

I understand I may have to enlarge the space to seat the conical, as they are small.

But whats the pro's and cons of using a conical? I am NOT concerned with HC/PC.

Thanks.

 

[Eterry]

If I decide to go with a conical, what are my options other than a 45 acp or long colt mold?
Thanks.

 

[Gun Tramp]

I tried two different conicals in a third generation 1860 and found them frustratingly inaccurate compared to roundballs.

 

[bang]

The Lee mini bullet fits for ramming in mine without any mods. IMO best to table load to get better alignment. At 350 gn weight 18gn charge is enough. 20+ gets a good trigger guard knuckle thump. Not impressed enough to use. Mainly use rb.

 

[Josephg]

What does NMA stand for?

 

[Grenadier1758]

New Model Army for the Remington solid frame revolver.

 

[rodwha]

My Pietta NMA was made in 2013 and has the newer 1:16” faster twist. It shoots my two conicals, both short for caliber, equally well as a RB, and my ROA also has a 1:16” barrel and shot about 7-8 different conicals equally well as a RB.

For myself I create a custom design at Accurate Molds with a very wide meplat. These are meant for hunting, and the ball has shown it produces just a caliber sized hole as it doesn’t expand at that low velocity, though it might if it hits bone. But a wide meplat creates a much larger hole regardless, and with the added mass certainly won’t penetrate any less.

I have a new powder measure that I can easily eye 2.5 grn increments and intend to further identify my most accurate hunting loads (I begin at 25 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford or Triple 7) and intend to modify a design I had come up with leaving 1/16” to keep gas cutting from eating the nose and another 1/16” for powder variation.

 

[Treestalker]

Knock that chip off his shoulder, Willie! Them newfangled bullets will never catch on!

 

[Bad Karma]

If I decide to go with a conical, what are my options other than a 45 acp or long colt mold?
Thanks.

The 245C is a good mold. As is the Accurate Molds 45-195C. I’m thinking about that 220 as well...

 

[rodwha]

The 245C is a good mold. As is the Accurate Molds 45-195C. I’m thinking about that 220 as well...View attachment 57271View attachment 57272

Having fired gobs of my 195’s I found that in my NMA it every once in a while would want to cant to the side. Rarely happened but it did, and so my next version will have a little longer base to better ensure it seats straight. My next design will also be longer and so hopefully it will keep me from needing to modify the loading window/port again.

 

[Freedom]

Since the .457 round ball loads so easily and the RB's cleanly take deer very well. I can see no real-world reason to fuss with conicals. accept maybe hogs. But even then I'm not totally convinced they are better, since the conicals reduce powder charges so much... Unless you are trying to up the performance of the 36 cals.

 

[Freedom]

I have recovered several round balls from deer over the years and I have yet to see one "flatten-out" as so many claim, even with the rifle.
The spherical ball is structurally stable and generally will not expand.
But here is a .457 RB I recovered from a revolver shot deer. It is interesting to see that the slight ring made from the loading lever during loading was greatly exaggerated when the ball captured tissue and expanded at this shallow line.
The round ball, in this case, made a very graphic bruise and large, over-caliber, wound channel. The only bone hit was a rib.

 

[M. De Land]

I have recovered several round balls from deer over the years and I have yet to see one "flatten-out" as so many claim, even with the rifle.
The spherical ball is structurally stable and generally will not expand.
But here is a .457 RB I recovered from a revolver shot deer. It is interesting to see that the slight ring made from the loading lever during loading was greatly exaggerated when the ball captured tissue and expanded at this shallow line.
The round ball, in this case, made a very graphic bruise and large, over-caliber, wound channel. The only bone hit was a rib.

Yeah, there not spheres any more after loading and muzzle exit.

 

[LME]

I have recovered several round balls from deer over the years and I have yet to see one "flatten-out" as so many claim, even with the rifle.
The spherical ball is structurally stable and generally will not expand.
But here is a .457 RB I recovered from a revolver shot deer. It is interesting to see that the slight ring made from the loading lever during loading was greatly exaggerated when the ball captured tissue and expanded at this shallow line.
The round ball, in this case, made a very graphic bruise and large, over-caliber, wound channel. The only bone hit was a rib.

If you have killed several deer and never had a ball flatten out you must have unpure lead, small cal. or weak loads? It doesn't make sense otherwise?

 

[Sparkitoff]

The OP asked if his .452 mold intended for 45 ACP was any advantage or worth investing time and effort with. My answer to that is "no". Your mold is made for a bullet that is slightly long for the NMA cylinder/ram tolerances with a decent charge. Also, a lot of NMA from different manufacturers really work best with a .454 diameter. I'd recommend a .454 ball in your revolver. You'll use somewhat less lead, get performance and velocity that has been documented a million times and they are more likely to have a point of impact close to your sights. If you want a conical for a particular reason it would be better to use one intended for your revolver. Some conical's tumble or keyhole when they are not specifically designed for the NMA. Why waste time and effort to find this out? Take a few shots with your bullets if they can be loaded without any modification and see how they print. If all is well, you're lucky and can use them. If not, go right back to the ball.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Good points Sparkitoff. I tried loading some .452 ACP cast from soft lead in a Pietta made 1858 Rem. and they were a PIA. I quickly gave up on the idea. If someone already has the mold, go ahead and try it but don't spend the money on a mold or bullets just to try it.

 

[rodwha]

Since the .457 round ball loads so easily and the RB's cleanly take deer very well. I can see no real-world reason to fuss with conicals. accept maybe hogs. But even then I'm not totally convinced they are better, since the conicals reduce powder charges so much... Unless you are trying to up the performance of the 36 cals.

For myself what I load I want to be as accurate as possible. My Pietta NMA did best with 30 grns of 3F (Olde E weighed ~33 grns) and left quite a bit of room with a ball. If I fill the excess with lead I don’t lose a bit of powder capacity but will gain a bigger wound and better penetration, none of which is bad hunting whatever.

 

[rodwha]

One fellow on another forum states the need to resize the base to load modern designed bullets. My Pietta had woefully undersized chambers that have been reamed to .449”, and I’ve read Uberti has .450” chambers, all of which would need the base resized.

My plunger/ram kisses my bullets with a strange imprint. A different fellow has used epoxy to form the ram tip to the bullet face so that this doesn’t happen.

 

[rodwha]

To be clear, for deer or non aggressive critters a ball would do just fine. A .45 cal hole isn’t small and a ball has shown it can penetrate fairly well.

 

[brewer12345]

freedom475, where are you hunting deer with your cap and ball? My state has a bunch of silly rules that exclude anything less than a 44 mag.