Re-tempering frizzen?

[Pierre du Plessis]

Hi there,

I find that with good flints, my sparks are a dull, almost reddish-yellow, and not that many in quantity. Is this a sign of a frizzen that has lost its temper? Thanks!

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Yes, you should see lots of white sparks. If you gun acts the way you describe with a variety of flints your frizzen is the problem.

 

[Patocazador]

Or the angle of the flint striking the frizzen is off. Try turning the bevel the opposite way and see what happens.

 

[bpd303]

Has it always sparked like that? If it used to spark good, then the frizzen may have been hardened with cherry red and has worn the carbon coating through and needs to be re-hardened.

 

[Pierre du Plessis]

I did attempt that, with no difference. I suppose that re-tempering a frizzen is a job for an experienced gunsmith, right?

 

[LRB]

What lock do you have? In general, the best sparks will be yellow orange to red orange. White sparks are good with some locks, but though there may be many, they are smaller, burn up faster, and often require a very sharp flint. Depends on the lock, and frizzen quality. You may have a weak main spring also.

 

[Pierre du Plessis]

Actually, a gunsmith of 30 years gave me the rifle (Jacob Dickert) last year, and I have never seen it give off white sparks - that's kinda the reason I'm asking. It was one of his first guns, so it's been through 30 years of use...

 

[Pierre du Plessis]

I have an L&R Jacob Dickert lock...

 

[Pierre du Plessis]

It's not that I'm having trouble with getting ignition or anything - I have actually made meat with it, with no problem. I'm just curious :wink: ...

 

[bpd303]

If it's not broke, don't try & fix it. :thumbsup:

 

[Pierre du Plessis]

Well, you see, I'd like to improve it if I am able :wink:

 

[LRB]

After 30 years of use, your frizzen may have horizontal furrows in the area of the initial flint strike zone. If so, this will cause bounce and reduce the amount of sparks. It will also slow down the forward action of the frizzen as the flint digs into the furrow, or furrows. You may see a furrow below an upper furrow where the flint re-connects after bouncing. This may contribute to the frizzen not opening fully. If your frizzen has that problem, you can carefully re-grind a new smoother face on the frizzen, but be very careful to not over heat it. Grind a second or two, then cool it in water and repeat until it is smooth. Grind it length wise, not cross wise. Also be careful to not grind the bottom too far or you may take off too much to cover the pan well. Don't grind any of it more than necessary.

 

[EC121]

If you know what kind of lock it is, buy another frizzen to try. Besides, it doesn't hurt to have a spare frizzen and mainspring. A lock will work pretty good without a frizzen spring in an emergency, but it needs the other parts.

 

[Billnpatti]

If you discover that you need to re-harden it, here is the product that replaced Kasinit
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...ing/surface-hardening-compound-prod27119.aspx

 

[Pierre du Plessis]

Yes, I definitely have those furrows in my frizzen - and I do have trouble with the frizzen opening completely. I have sanded it down with sandpaper, going from 80 grit all the way to 2000. After that, I did notice some improvement in the sparking, but not much - and it's still temperamental about opening all the way.

I might just go ahead and order a new frizzen from L&R - I suppose that I'll have to harden any new frizzens that I purchase, as I guess they don't come pre-hardened. I do have all the other replacement parts though - have heard too many horror stories about mainsprings snapping on big hunts :wink:

Thanks for all the help!

 

[LRB]

You will also have to fit it, and probably drill the screw hole, then heat treat it. You might be better off sending it to L&R for repair. That may save a lot of headaches.

 

[Zonie]

Wick makes a good point.

Most of the lock companies supply their new frizzens as raw castings.

These require filing, locating, drilling and hardening before they will work.

Locating and drilling a new frizzen casting can result in a badly damaged lock. It's all to easy to mess up the existing threads for the frizzen screw.

Send the lock to the maker and pay them to do the job.
They have the tooling and knowledge to do it right.

 

[Alden]

They're right. Especially for the nominal fee of what they'll charge to fit and finish the lock maintenance on top of selling you the part... it's a bargain.

 

[dano2467]

Frizzen hardening would only be needed if you were only replacing the frizzen? If you purchase a new complete lock the frizzen is already good to go correct?

 

[Zonie]

A new, fully assembled lock will have all of the parts that need hardening, fully hardened and tempered.

The frizzen supplied by the big American lock companies is just a raw casting.

The frizzens supplied by the companies that make complete guns like Pedersoli, Uberti etc. usually supply frizzens that are fully machined and hardened.
This is good for the average joe who knows how to unscrew a screw and compress a frizzen spring because he can simply install the new part.

It's not so good for building a high quality lock because the tolerances on each part can cause some misalignment in the finished assembly.
That ends up with the company making a whole bunch of "pretty good" locks, a few very good locks and a few very poor locks.