Range time with the TVM/additional questions/Vent liner

[koauke]

I was able to take out my new TVM to the range for the first time. It is incredibly fun to shoot and all works perfectly. Though it will take some time to learn as my group had much to be desired! I will try different loads and patches next time.

I cleaned the rifle with the toothpick method in the vent and let water sit in the barrel. I did this twice and ran a nylon brush several times. I ran patches until they came out white, though there was a hint of brown on them, some surface rust? I feel uneasy with this method as it seemed to clean up rather fast (I use the flush tube on my percussion rifle). I ran some alcohol patches, then dried it out and then ran barricade patches. I will check for rust in the morning. I could see streaks of what appeared to be some surface rust near the muzzle when shining a light. So we'll see what happens.....

I'm a little frustrated with the vent liner. I was under the impression that these need to come out for cleaning, but I can't get the thing to budge and I would rather not try again as it was beginning to mar the screw slot (not sure why these are so shallow). Suggestions?

 

[Artificer]

Actually, most vent liners once installed are not meant to be taken out until they burn out and you probably will never shoot enough to do that.

The hint of brown on the patches might well have been traces of either preservative grease or oil in the barrel. Check again tomorrow, but it sounds like you cleaned it proper.

Gus

 

[The Baron]

I've never removed my vent liner. I don't think it is intended, or necessary.

There's been a bit of discussion on the topic, but I don't think it is possible to have a perfectly white patch come out of a BP muzzle loader. I've cleaned and scrubbed my smoothie extensively and still get a bit of grey, and it is most definitely not rust. It sounds like you did a good job cleaning yours and my guess is the streaks are leftover oil/grease and/or leading.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...tid/295206/post/1490080/hl/clean/fromsearch/1/

 

[koauke]

Thanks for the responses. Good to know about the vent liner, I will leave it be, tho wish I hadn't marred the screw slot.
I had watched a video on the cap and ball youtube channel and he pulls the vent liner to attach a flush tube, which I was eventually hoping to be able to do. It sure made cleaning my percussion rifle easier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D7aPISrwmE

I bought one of the track of the wolf clamp on flush tubes, but I couldn't get it to seal.

 

[Tom Compton]

I had to replace my vent liner about 15-20 years ago (built in 1983) as gas cutting had opened it up and 100 yard POI had dropped 2-3 inches.

Your flint flush gizmo can't seal because of the screw slot. The original I. My gun had no screw slot but I replaced it with a slotted one. About time to change again and I already have one with a large lug for installation that is then cut off and filed smooth.
TC

 

[SgtErv]

It feels like you've 'done something wrong' because it's sometimes easier than anticipated haha. For the last few swabs I've taken to using a bore mop with a cotton patched wrapped around it. This is really tight, so you may need a ramrod puller, but it gets deep into the grooves.

As for the colors coming out...any time I'm doing the WD40 or even Barricade at the end there is some coloration. I end up wiping until it's gone, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. When you spray barricade into a clean white patch it turns it brown.

I've never removed the vent liner for cleaning or even inspection. I don't want to wear out those threads.

Hope you had good shooting!

 

[hanshi]

You're cleaning correctly from your description. It is virtually impossible to get a snow white clean patch out of a muzzleloader no matter how much scrubbing you've done. It's just the nature of the beast. And there's no reason to remove the vent liner for cleaning; just not necessary. If you drill out the vent hole to 1/16" it will accept, sometimes grudgingly, a pipe cleaner; that's all you need. I'll admit, however, that when I get a new gun I remove (if possible) the liner and open the inner cone a bit more. But that's it; all before it has been fired.

 

[Gene L]

One of those dental proxy brushes (large or "wide") for flossing teeth works great on a flash hole. GUM makes them, they're a round bristle brush with a handle and you get a dozen or so in a package.

 

[hanshi]

Actually I do have quite a few of those and they are quite handy for that use.

 

[koauke]

So, I noticed there are some scratch/tooling marks in the first half inch or so of the barrel. Should I be concerned about this affecting accuracy?

At the moment I can't get a good grouping but this may just be me getting used to the rifle and figuring out a good load/patch combo.

 

[Flint311]

Wrap your cleaning jag with steel wool and polish the first couple inches well. Run it all the way down sometimes too. This will clean any burs or rough spots. Doesn't have have to be done again after it's smoothed out, then just shoot and clean as you described. :thumbsup:

 

[Tom Compton]

Jon on Frontier ML site has developed 2 patch lubes and a product for cleaning/polishing bores. I've used one lube and bought some of the other two but not yet used them. John has a lot of research and experimenting and provides description and pics.

http://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/f46-see-our-product-testing

 

[SgtErv]

Mine looks the same. Is it cutting patches? Mine was cutting them all along the lands...but only on the first string of about 10, which is really strange.

I got curious and talked with Jason at Rice Barrel Co about it. (Really nice guy). The fix is going to be switching from 3F to 2F and from .015 to .018 patches. Only doing the 2F today so I can change one thing at a time.

When it's not cutting patches, like on the last string of the day last week, after about 30 shots, it was shooting a 1 1/2" group at 25yds, bench supported.

Jason said there shouldn't be an extensive break in period for their barrels, but I'm honestly not going to do anything besides tinker with loads and such until I've got several hundred shots through it.

Heading out today to experiment so I'll report back here

 

[bigted]

i agree with this as my GPR needed around 100 or 200 shots before it settled down to be a smooth barrel and group nice n tight.

i have taken very lite valve grinding compound to a very tired barrel or two and scrubbed them into submission ... however they were very pitted and rough with no saving graces so i had nothing to lose by giving such treatment.

shoot the sweety a bunch and see if it will smooth out and accuracy will be found. before getting too crazy with experimentation ... i would just shoot it about 100 times with full strength loads and good tight patch's and figure on doing fire watch after and during to ensure no fire gets started with smoldering patch's. this will give the barrel enough time to begin to smooth out and then try different combo's to attain your desired accuracy. this is a great time to expend some unwanted powder or less then perfect balls in the plain shooting exercise. besides this will give you both time and shooting to get really acquainted with each other.

have fun with your new addition and as always ... pictures ... if no pictures ... it really didnt happen ... HA

 

[Rifleman1776]

vent liners once installed are not meant to be taken out until they burn out

Spot on.
But, an active shooter can burn out his liners. How often is not predictable. Usually years.

 

[koauke]

No, it isn't cutting patches. I've had it out to the range three times so far. I started out with .015 patches and now and then I would find one with a tiny hole, but I switched to .018 ticking and haven't found a patch with a hole yet. It loads very smooth, it seems smoother than my Pedersoli.

 

[Micah Clark]

Rice seems to polish their barrels far better than other makers both inside and out . . . I'd be a little surprised if it needed "breaking in" or polished because of any burring. I have a Rice on my TVM late lancaster . . I've not finished it yet or shot it, but it was surprising how nice of a barrel it is. . .draw fling isn't even necessary to finish the outside of it . . I just used some light sandpaper.

 

[Gene L]

I will reiterate to check your rear sight. Mine was excessively loose to allow sighting in. When I got my zero, I staked it down. And filed down a notch in the rear. Which made a huge difference.

Mine groups great, about as great as I can shoot. Patches look fine.

 

[SgtErv]

I wouldn't worry about polishing it if it's not cutting patches. Thatd be the only reason to do so. I'm considering it because I usually have 7 little holes all where the lands are grabbing the patch. Still, switching to a thicker patch that I throw in the wash before I do anything.

If it still cuts them, Rice said they would replace it. (Don't reckon I'd really need them to, but that's good to know)

The other fellas' opinions may differ, but I say leave it be and have fun shooting for a while without necessarily trying to dial it in

 

[koauke]

Good to hear they will stand by the quality of their product. I emailed TVM the picture I posted above just to get their opinion.

I love the rifle, its just stunning with that fancy maple. I had it out at my black powder club this weekend and they were thoroughly impressed with it.

It is very comfortable to shoot, recoil is noticeably less than my Pedersoli Kentucky. I assume due to the wider and straighter butt plate. Not that recoil is really an issue with the Kentucky.