Questionable shots on deer?

[rja72]

This will be the first year I hunt with my .50 Hawken. I am going to shoot .490 PRB with 85 gr 2F.

My question is are there any questionable shots on deer with that load?

I plan on taking broadside or quartering away shots to make sure I get lungs.

If I have to take a quartering to or staight on shot, will the PRB penetrate the shoulder or brisket well enough for a clean kill?

I believe there are only two times I would "have to" take a shot like that: 1) down to a couple hours left in the season. 2) The buck of a lifetime is going to get away if I don't take it. Otherwise I will wait for a better shot.

3 days to Illinois firearms season!

Thanks

 

[Roy]

I haven't had a hard shoulder bone shot yet. I try like everyone else wait for the perfect shot, but odd things do happen... My first deer that I shot with any gun, just happened to be a .50 flinter with 65 grains of 3f. She was quatering away from me... perfect... until she took one little side step. Well it was too late the hammer was falling, so I held steady. End result was the ball hit and broke the pelvis and then broke the back bone and continued to travel up into the chest cavity... Now it did not exit, but it did travel the length of the deer. Amazing enough it was a clean shot, didn't damage any meat, or hit any parts that would have made field dressing not nice.

 

[jtmattison]

I'd avoid a shoulder shot with roundball but I have heard many reports of double shoulder penetration with roundball. Go for the safe shot and shoot for the boiler room. If I HAD to take a quartering to shot I would aim for center and hope the ball takes out one lung on the way out. Not my idea of a perfect hit on a deer.

HD

 

[MikeChapin]

Many years ago I shot a large mulie doe who was quartered towards me. I shot a little high and hit the back of the shoulder blade. It shattered the shoulder blade broke a rib, passed through both lungs, clipped the liver and broke a short rib on the far side and lodged under the skin. She lifted her foreleg and fell right down.

That was done with a .50 CVA Mountain Rifle with 70 grains of 3F. The range was 70-75 yards, getting towards the final area of my comfort zone. I won't take a shot outside of 100 yards.

Most shots are within 50 yards. That load will pass through the chest and out the other side on a deer or antelope on a sideways shot.

 

[playfarmers]

I have hit more than one doe with a round ball in the shoulder, and they dropped on the spot. I do not like to destroy that much meat, but there was no problem with penetration.

 

[BrownBear]

I absolutely HATE shoulder shots with any arm, much less a muzzleloader. We're just too proud of our shoulder roasts. But I've got the luxury of a 5 month deer season and good odds of another chance at deer any time I pass one up.

If it was the end of the season or if I was hunting a short season, and it was a shoulder shot or no venison at all, I wouldn't pass it up- but only if there was no other choice.

I don't have enough experience with 50 cal RB to make a call on effectiveness, but I suspect it would be alright. Compared to lots of other animals, those shoulder bones are pretty small and soft. Based on what I've seen with 54 cal RB's I'd have no hesitation with one of those.

But "buck of a lifetime" chance shots? Nope. I'd walk away with added resolve to do a better job of stalking next time, but accept responsibility for blowing the stalk rather than take a chance, even a small chance, of wounding such a terrific animal. It's way too sad to think of such a great animal dying later due to a bad shot on top of a bad stalk.

 

[Dave K]

I know when I traveled to the West and any talk of a shoulder shot would make the guide very irate! He claimed to have tracked and lost more game with that shot, then any boiler room shot. He has seen more game taken in a year that many will in a lifetime. So I will listen to those who have more experience than me. The shot you are talking about is text book placement! Place the ball in that area and prepare for steaks.

 

[Herb]

Well, I made a shot on a mule deer buck that turned out to be bad. It was an offhand broadside neck shot and I'll never do that again. Used my .54 Green River Leman Trade rifle I built, 120 grains of Goex 2F and a round ball at 1860 fps. Shot it at 100 yards and chronographed it a bunch of times, knew that load. Shot this unalerted, walking buck (following a doe) at about 90 yards, in the middle of the neck. Doe ran, buck turned off into the heavy sagebrush. Reloaded, went up to gut out buck. No buck. No blood, no hair, nada. Looked for over an hour, so many tracks in dust that I couldn't track him. Had to give up, but found more deer a half mile away. Put a big sneak on them, got to about 70-80 yards away, picked out the biggest buck. They lay down for half an hour, then got up and I shot the buck through the spine behind the shoulders. Gutted him out and threw him in the back of my VW Rabbit and got him home. Hung him on the clothesline post to hose him out and saw a big splotch on the neck. About 4" diameter circle of blasted hair, down to about a 1" circle of bare flesh, but no hole or blood. This turned out to be the same buck I shot that morning, and that ball literally bounced off the side of his neck. Did not knock him down or even seem to inconvenience him. In studying him with the binocs, I did not see that splotch. But it sure cured me of neck-shooting.

 

[CWC]

Are you saying you were aiming for the neck on a 90 yard shot? Why would you try for the neck at that distance?

 

[xxgrampa]

always have said and still say, the best shot is, rite behind the ear. then one thru the hams to finish him off. :grin:


..ttfn..grampa..

 

[dlemaster]

A shot behind the ear, and you still have to put a shot through some of the best meat to finish him??? LOL
Grampa, I think your pullin' our chain again.

Regards, Dave

 

[Stumpkiller]

I absolutely HATE shoulder shots with any arm, much less a muzzleloader. We're just too proud of our shoulder roasts.

If it was the end of the season or if I was hunting a short season, and it was a shoulder shot or no venison at all, I wouldn't pass it up- but only if there was no other choice.

I'm with you. I've also seen shoulder shots "heal up" when the deer moves and leave almost no bloodtrail. The shoulder-blade plugs the hole through the muscle & lungs. A whitetail's shoulder "floats" (no bone contact to the spine) and it will not carry the shock of a hit as well as some folks believe.

My question is are there any questionable shots on deer with that load?

Many. Shots through cover. Head shots (heads move fast and unpredictably). Rear shots. Running shots. Shots with no obvious back-stop. Shots in a herd. Etc.

I hunt with a round ball as if it was an improved arrow. Shoot for the low lungs, missing as much bone as possible and try for a pass through to bleed 'em out and prevent them from taking a breath (perforated lungs don't work as the diaphram can't draw air as well with the extra ventillation - it draws air across the damaged sections). Heart shots work but, IMHO, they can go farther with a perforated heart than two perforated lungs. I won't try to get through the foreleg to get at the heart in any case.

I have no faith in neck shots as the spine only takes up 20% of the area and there's too much chance of a lingering death for the deer from a bad hit. Miss the spine and you've also probably missed the major neck blood vessels.

I follow that foreleg up and try to lay the shot a hand's with up into the lungs. When the deer is at odd angles imagine a softball right in the center of the deer's lungs and try to put the ball through the middle of that.

No matter the angle there will be times the shot either feels right or it doesn't. If it doesn't feel right don't take the shot. Sometimes it just presents itself and the ball is away in a heartbeat. Other times it's a long wait for a proper shot. Don't make eye contact and wait 'em out.

 

[Herb]

Yes, I aimed for the neck. I didn't know any better then. I hit just where I aimed, which in the diagram above was just over the word carotid, on that heavy vertebrae. You see from the habitat that it is difficult to get close to deer. Thus my heavy load.

 

[Pork Chop]

If it doesn't feel right don't take the shot.

AMEN!

 

[jimmy82]

The only deer I have harvested with a BP was probably a shot I shouldn't have taken. 75 gr 2f equivalent pyrodex, .440 rb with a .010 pre lubed patch... round about 90 to a 100 yards. Thing is the deer was at a good trot and I was free hand by the time I shot cause she moved beyond where my hay bail blind could act as a rest. Hit her in the spine about a hand span behind the ribs. Not a fatal shot, but it took her hind legs out so I didn't have to track.

But it was on R&R during a previous deployment and I didn't have many days to hunt and I wanted to make meat. Haven't had a chance to deer hunt since. But it's nice to know that until I get another chance, that last deer I took was not an easy 150 yd standing shot with the scoped 7mm Rem Mag. Something more fulfilling about using BP.

But from now on, yes I will try not to take such difficult shots. It's just not a sure kill and you could have a gut shot deer that you'll never get close to before the sun goes down.

Heck, I've even seen a .30-06 shot go bad. 150gr ballistic tip hit really low on the ribcage, not sure the bullet had enough time to expand and transfer energy before it exited it was that low, but it still punctured the lungs. The skin somehow folded down and covered the holes and the deer left no blood trail. We found it the next day frozen solid 40 yards from where it was shot by pure accident because we were pushing the tree line that it ran into. Placement is everything.

 

[xxgrampa]

greetings,

ol' grampa does not pull chains!!! never, nope, not one bit.. :grin:

tt.g

 

[xxgrampa]

greetings stump killer,

quite often you will hear of a shoulder shot on a deer and the deer dropped like a stone..

what really happened was, the shot broke the spine.

never saw it better than on your diagram. a shot thru the shoulder will take out the spine..

thanks for the diagram. gonna save and print it.. it's the best i ever saw..

..ttfn..grampa..

 

[DBox]

My advice would be "If it's questionable, don't take it". I know that's hard to do sometimes but another chance will come along.

 

[44-henry]

I just shot a medium size buck last Monday with a .54 rb loaded with 110 grains. The ball hit square in the shoulder and the deer fell stone dead. The shot was about 90 yards and I recovered the ball just under the skin on the opposite shoulder. It did not hit spine either. Not saying this is always going to happen, but in this instance it worked fine.

 

Put one in the boiler room and you will be fine. Never take a shot that is questionable. There is no such thing as a buck of a lifetime since you never know when your last hunt will be. Any animal we choose to pull a trigger on deserves a clean death.

Now that being said go to the range get REAL good with your gun and knock em dead.

Billy