Question?

[twobarrel]

:idunno: What would be the correct way to carry rb's in the late 1700's? Ball block, hard cast bag or soft bag?

 

[nkbj]

Leather bag.

 

[FPDoc]

Or in your mouth if you were expecting to need a few in a big hury. :grin:

 

[henbrook]

I was just watching Mel Gibson's "The Patriot" today,and in one scene I coulda swore he had a ball block hanging around his neck?Maybe I was seeing things,but it made me wonder for a sec if it was indeed a ball block or if it was PC/HC?

 

[msuspartan]

As a rebuttul question to the leather bag theory.

If the military from the Rev. War onward used cartridge boxes on their belt, why would the normal hunter not use them? Seems like that would be more common since you would rather have a few rounds already set to fire than to have to fumble around for ball, patch and powder?

Just asking as I have been contemplating on this issue. (scary is it not??) :rotf:

Cheers, DonK

 

[ohio ramrod]

Cartridge boxes were common for military smoothbores and up through the civil war for mini's. But as far as I know were never used for patched round ball. Just from my own experience I tried for two years to make and use paper cartridges with patched round balls and found they just did not work for me.The patch would not stay centered. Using a ball block works for me!

 

[poordevil]

I tie mine in a pillow ticking patch and dip in lube, then carry in a cartridge box in a tube filled with powder or, lose in a shooting bag. Use powder from horn or flask, then take ball, load...off you go.

P

 

[squirrellluck]

My first argument would be cost. IE... if you are supplying I use what you provide other wise I will use what I consider the best for my money. I suspect buying loose is more cost effective

 

[David W.]

Cartridge boxes were common for military smoothbores and up through the civil war for mini's. But as far as I know were never used for patched round ball. Just from my own experience I tried for two years to make and use paper cartridges with patched round balls and found they just did not work for me.The patch would not stay centered. Using a ball block works for me!

I don't know about the cartridge boxes, but I do know ball blocks were common.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

There are no indications of a loading block for patched round balls being used in the 18th century.
It appears the main use of the "shot bag" or what we call a hunting pouch/bag was for holding the round balls.

 

[LRB]

Capt. Jas. is correct. As of yet, no one has been able to document the use of a bullet block, or produce one provable to the 18th c. These blocks seem to be traceable only to mid 19th c., if that even. That said, when I hunt I carry a two ball block, but not at a juried event.

 

[Zonie]

I've never seen anything written about the use of a ball block prior to the 20th century but they may have been used. There are a lot of things they didn't write about back in those days.

One possible explanation is that a small leather ball bag works quite well. That, plus knowing that the only time rapid reloading was even considered was in hostile situations and these situations were far from a daily occurrence.

From what I've read, in hunting or target shooting situations the old timers knew they had only one shot so they "made it count" by taking their time.

Even reloading after shooting a critter was not a hurried afire. They took their time and re-loaded carefully so that they could count on their next shot.

After the shot they stood quietly and listened to the sounds of the woods around them. This not only told them how far the animal ran (if it didn't go down right away) but which direction. It also allowed them to set up landmarks so that if they didn't find the downed critter they could return to the point where they were standing during the shot to try a slightly different direction.

This method is not without some good reasoning.
Often, when shot the animal knows something is wrong but unless they see something pursuing them they won't panic and will move only a short distance before they lay down.

IMO, the idea of using a ball block is a fairly modern one which tries to achieve a more cartridge like way of hunting.

 

[David W.]

I could be wrong and have no evidence to prove it, but I thought I have seen an old picture of someone who was wearing what appeared to be a loading block around his neck. I am trying to find the picture, and if I do, I will try to post it.

 

[Stumpkiller]

If the military from the Rev. War onward used cartridge boxes on their belt, why would the normal hunter not use them?

Is this how YOU dress and the equipment you use now when you go hunting? That's how the military equips itself now.

Just because the military has access to equipment does not mean the average slob had the same or even wanted it.

Paper cartridges are fragile, not moisture proof and require paper. Paper was a luxury in most places of the colonies. Remember slates and chaulk?

 

[Norinco]

Not to mention that hunters did not need to carry twenty shots that could be rapidly loaded.

 

[longcruise]

I'm inclined to go with the conclusion that there is no evidence of the early use ofball blocks. Even those found in early pouches and bags may have been used with the bag in much later times.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

They didn't use precut patches. (I think) So, would they cut the patches off at the loading block just like at the muzzle?

 

[longcruise]

They didn't use precut patches. (I think) So, would they cut the patches off at the loading block just like at the muzzle?

There is plenty of room for speculation on that! I think they did use precut patches. I don't know how you carry your gear and load but I have done both cut at the muzzle and precut patch extensively and have settled on pre-cut for the vast majority of my shooting. I used to load ball blocks by cutting them at the block same as cutting at the muzzle but nowadays I just load a ball into the block with a pre-cut patch. My blocks are mostly quite thick and reamed out so that the patched ball can be easily pushed in with finger pressure. The reason for the thick block is so that the entire ball is enclosed in the block and not protruding from either side of the block. My patches are all cut from bulk material and are square.

In comparing cut at the muzzle with pre-cut patches, it is much simpler and speedier to avoid cutting at the muzzle. It leaves me thinking that they did it the simple way and did not cut at the muzzle.

The system I use now goes like this:

If wiping between shots, wet a wiping patch with spit and wipe the barrel with the guns mounted rod. The rod has a jag attached at all times while shooting.


Holding the barrel just below the muzzle with my left hand, and with a powder measure (on lanyard around my neck) held in the tips of the fingers on the left hand grab the horn with the right hand, pull the plug with teeth, hold the plug in mouth (no lanyard on plug) fill measure, bring horn to mouth and shove plug back in (you will not inadvertently forget to plug your horn when the plug is in your mouth :haha: ) , take measure in right hand and pour powder down barrel, reach into shooting bag and grab a greased patch and a ball, lay them on the muzzle, place long arm of the short starter on top of the ball and with one swat drive it four or five inches down the bore, pull rod from thimbles and drive the ball the rest of the way down, capper is on the same lanyard as the measure. Using the ball block makes it that much easier to retrieve the ball and patch. Even so, I don't use blocks much.

I keep greased patches stuffed into one corner of the bag and dry wiping patches stuffed in the opposite corner. If I shooting spit lube, the patch comes out of the bag and into my mouth while reaching into the bag again to grab a ball.

This eliminates having to first short start the ball, retrieve a patch knife, cut the patch, replace the patch knife, bring the starter back into play, then push the ball the four or five inches down the bore.

My short starters don't for the most part have the little nub arm for getting the ball started in the muzzle. Most of them have a 7/16th hole drilled in the side so I can put the round handle of the short starter over the end of the rod in case the ball gets stubborn about going down the bore.

Guess I got off on a bit of a tangent here! :shocked2: :redface:

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Even those found in early pouches and bags may have been used with the bag in much later times.

More likely the bag is from later times as well.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

They didn't use precut patches. (I think) So, would they cut the patches off at the loading block just like at the muzzle?

There is plenty of room for speculation on that! I think they did use precut patches.

There is 18th century documentation that patches were pre-cut.