Question about flintlocks from a newbie.

[Nabonidus62]

I've been wanting to get an arquebus for a while but I've decided that a matchlock weapon might not be a good choice for a first time buyer and also would be a pain to take hunting.

So my question is does anyone know of any kinds of accessible flintlock guns which have roughly similar proportions to this veteran arms arquebus and are also capable of firing both shot and roundballs?

https://veteranarms.com/shop/muskets/Early-Matchlock-Arquebus-p207413996

Cheers to anyone who can help!

 

[hanshi]

Quite a problem if you want a similar stock on a flintlock. I've never seen any flintlock resembling this photo. But that doesn't mean such things don't exist. It's doubtful any factory rifle has that kind of stock. More than likely it will have to be a custom build.

 

[Nabonidus62]

Quite a problem if you want a similar stock on a flintlock. I've never seen any flintlock resembling this photo. But that doesn't mean such things don't exist. It's doubtful any factory rifle has that kind of stock. More than likely it will have to be a custom build.

I don't mind if the stock is a different shape. What I'm really after is a weapon with a similar length and caliber.

 

[hanshi]

I don't mind if the stock is a different shape. What I'm really after is a weapon with a similar length and caliber.

Now that's something that you actually get/find/buy/have built. There are quite a few factory flintlocks that would qualify. But the caliber, depending on what the caliber actually is, can be barrels of a caliber that is very close.
For instance: you want a barrel that's .636" a bore can be had in .620" or there about. I have a Matt Avance built .45 with a 36" barrel which feels short to me.

 

[andy52]

you might look into a canoe gun, kits are available.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't mind if the stock is a different shape. What I'm really after is a weapon with a similar length and caliber.

What Hanshi said is accurate. The matchlock went out of favor for good reasons. It is a very dangerous firearm to handle. In fact, even though it is a muzzle loader, many ranges and club prohibit their use. Do stay with this forum and do some research on early muzzle loaders, particularly European styles. You are sure to find something that will suit your fancy. We are here to help. And, welcome to the forum.

 

[Nabonidus62]

Now that's something that you actually get/find/buy/have built. There are quite a few factory flintlocks that would qualify. But the caliber, depending on what the caliber actually is, can be barrels of a caliber that is very close.
For instance: you want a barrel that's .636" a bore can be had in .620" or there about. I have a Matt Avance built .45 with a 36" barrel which feels short to me.

Thank you very much for the advice. I've had a snoop around and the Brown Bess Carbine from Pedersoli is quite short with a 30.5 inch barrel. It's also .75 cal which might actually be bigger than the matchlock in the picture. Would you say that's too big to go hunting deer with?

 

[Nabonidus62]

you might look into a canoe gun, kits are available.View attachment 169955

Thanks. I'll check it out.

 

[Nabonidus62]

What Hanshi said is accurate. The matchlock went out of favor for good reasons. It is a very dangerous firearm to handle. In fact, even though it is a muzzle loader, many ranges and club prohibit their use. Do stay with this forum and do some research on early muzzle loaders, particularly European styles. You are sure to find something that will suit your fancy. We are here to help. And, welcome to the forum.

Yes I was initially interested in matchlocks but they do seem quite dodgy, especially for me as I have little experience with muzzle loaders as a whole. Thank you for your words of encouragement though. I'll be sure to stick around.

 

[hanshi]

No, Nabonidus62, .75 is not too big for deer. Many deer have been taken with bores larger than .62. In essence, there is no such thing as too much gun. Now .75 is a bit large for, say, squirrels but not if you always hit the head. But for deer size game or basically anything that roams N. America the .75 is comforting.

 

[Nabonidus62]

No, Nabonidus62, .75 is not too big for deer. Many deer have been taken with bores larger than .62. In essence, there is no such thing as too much gun. Now .75 is a bit large for, say, squirrels but not if you always hit the head. But for deer size game or basically anything that roams N. America the .75 is comforting.

That's great to know. thank you.

Do you have much experience with short barreled smoothbores? If so what kind of range and accuracy can I expect?

 

[Bushfire]

If so what kind of range and accuracy can I expect?

You can't ask a question like that. Understand that smoothbore guns are something else entirely. Some people luck on to a good load off the bat but a lot of the time there is a fair amount of trial and even more error.

50 yards is a lot of peoples max on deer. I want to get to 75 and it is possible, but not with any loads I've shot.

Mike did a great video on bess accuracy

 

[Nabonidus62]

You can't ask a question like that. Understand that smoothbore guns are something else entirely. Some people luck on to a good load off the bat but a lot of the time there is a fair amount of trial and even more error.

50 yards is a lot of peoples max on deer. I want to get to 75 and it is possible, but not with any loads I've shot.

Mike did a great video on bess accuracy

Thanks for the info and video. Apart from load how greatly do you think a short barrel on a smooth bore would effect your ability to reach longer shooting ranges when compared to a full length gun?

 

[Bushfire]

Thanks for the info and video. Apart from load how greatly do you think a short barrel on a smooth bore would effect your ability to reach longer shooting ranges when compared to a full length gun?

You're powder burn won't be as efficient.

If I can change topic a little, what do you want the gun for? Is it for target or competition or hunting? If hunting what game are you chasing and to what ranges?

 

[Nabonidus62]

You're powder burn won't be as efficient.

If I can change topic a little, what do you want the gun for? Is it for target or competition or hunting? If hunting what game are you chasing and to what ranges?

I mainly had in mind hunting and clay shooting.

Stuff like pheasants, ducks and possums and also deer, goats and maybe wild pigs. I've never taken shots much further than 80 meters probably. Usually it's short range.

 

[Bushfire]

I mainly had in mind hunting and clay shooting.

Stuff like pheasants, ducks and possums and also deer, goats and maybe wild pigs. I've never taken shots much further than 80 meters probably. Usually it's short range.

Not to try and change your mind but have you considered a north west trade gun or fusil de chasse in 20G/62 cal?

I shoot similar species to you at similar ranges and it's one of my go to's, although I preference my 54 flint rifle for hunting reds.

 

[Grenadier1758]

That's great to know. thank you.

Do you have much experience with short barreled smoothbores? If so what kind of range and accuracy can I expect?

Even with all my experience with smooth bored guns, I have found that that I can't tell someone the range and accuracy that they should expect out of their firearm. That is something you will have to determine at the range. So I tell people that they should start with expecting hunting accuracy with a ball to be about 50 yards maximum. After load development at the range, you might find that your hunting distance will be 35 yards for consistent placement of the ball or maybe longer. The same is true of shot. You will learn through the shot pattern development the pattern density and the range that the shot is effectively penetrating a sturdy tin can.

 

[hanshi]

That's great to know. thank you.

Do you have much experience with short barreled smoothbores? If so what kind of range and accuracy can I expect?

I have no experience with short barrel smoothbores; but have lots of experience with short rifles. My smoothbore has a 38" barrel. A shorter barrel will generally deliver less velocity but not necessarily a great loss. Range, a good way to determine how far you can shoot is the greatest range you can keep three shot groups on an 8" target every time. I've also sometimes used the size of a soccer ball as an example. Mine will easily beat that but I spent a lot of time finding it. A short barrel will have near the same trajectory a longer one.

 

[Nabonidus62]

Not to try and change your mind but have you considered a north west trade gun or fusil de chasse in 20G/62 cal?

I shoot similar species to you at similar ranges and it's one of my go to's, although I preference my 54 flint rifle for hunting reds.

I will check them out thank you.

I'm definitely open to suggestions, my interest in the Brown Bess mostly comes from it being a Pedersoli, which are by far the most common and accessible black powder guns in New Zealand. They are the only ones imported by suppliers here as well I believe. (You need a govt permit to order guns yourself here annoyingly)

 

[Bushfire]

I'm definitely open to suggestions, my interest in the Brown Bess mostly comes from it being a Pedersoli, which are by far the most common and accessible black powder guns in New Zealand. They are the only ones imported by suppliers here as well I believe. (You need a govt permit to order guns yourself here annoyingly)

Australia is pretty much the same mate.

I initially bought Pedersoli which aren't bad guns. But if you look hard enough you can find custom second hand guns around. And for the price of Pedersolis now you're really better off going the latter direction.

I've had success putting wanted ads on gun sites. Picked up my 54 GRRW flinter and 62cal smooth fusil de chasse that way.