Powderhorn and bag

[timothy prouty]

well with you guys put your horn with the bag or do you tie the horned separate from the bag witches is historical correct thanks

 

[Claude Mathis]

Mine are on seperate straps, but I don't think there is an HC "rule".

 

[SgtErv]

There is quite a bit of debate around this issue. I have tried both and found the separate strap to be a bit more convenient for refilling the horn and pushing it back a bit before shooting. You can also push it out of the way to dig in your bag

 

[Artificer]

The problem is there are just not enough 18th century rifle shot pouches to form any kind of conclusion. FIW war paintings seem to show them separate more often and one surviving pouch from that era in Madison Grant's book has the horn on a separate strap.

My belief/speculation is that IF the man was on Active Duty with the Army/Militia in the FIW or AWI; then more than likely if not probably, the horn was on a separate strap. This because it is documented they collected up the horns and took them to the Artillery (if present) or if not, then the Quartermaster to fill the horns. Having to tote bags and horns would have been more of a PITA and I don't think folks would want to be separated from their shot pouches. There are also some accounts of how some men scrimshanded their own horns and horns for others with the owner's name or mark or some identifying feature. That is how they identified their own horn, after it came back from being filled.

Finally there are accounts where sometimes raw horns were supplied in large quantities to the troops to be made into powder horns. I have to admit, though, I'm not entirely sure of what to make of that. If someone brought their own rifle or gun, they surely brought their own powder horn. MAYBE the reason they issued raw horns was to make larger powder horns to hold more powder for military use, rather than a small "day" horn the person brought with him? I just don't know and have not found any documentation on it.

Gus

 

[timothy prouty]

HEY thanks guys for the info now do you think it's was a string or strap

 

[excess650]

The original bags and horns that I've seen were on separate leather straps. More horns seem to have survived the years than did the shot pouches.

 

[BrownBear]

My belief/speculation is that IF the man was on Active Duty with the Army/Militia in the FIW or AWI; then more than likely if not probably, the horn was on a separate strap. This because it is documented they collected up the horns and took them to the Artillery (if present) or if not, then the Quartermaster to fill the horns.

That's what I settled on as the decider for marshal uses. Not so sure about citizens, though.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I have tried both, and found having them be separate to be easier to manage....

 

[Artificer]

My belief/speculation is that IF the man was on Active Duty with the Army/Militia in the FIW or AWI; then more than likely if not probably, the horn was on a separate strap. This because it is documented they collected up the horns and took them to the Artillery (if present) or if not, then the Quartermaster to fill the horns.

That's what I settled on as the decider for marshal uses. Not so sure about citizens, though.

With the number of early 19th century horns attached to civilian shot pouches still extant, I would not be surprised if that practice at least began, if not became common, in the third quarter of the 18th century. Don't have documentation to back it up, though, and I don't believe it is necessary. Civilians would have done what they liked best as to whether or not to attach a horn to a bag.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have tried both, and found having them be separate to be easier to manage....

Yep

+1 :thumbsup:

I think that the practice of having both bag and horn on one strap came about when the chance of using the rifle for self defense in a running fight was well reduced.

LD

 

[timothy prouty]

Thanks guys for all the info hey does anyone have pictures of your pag and horn thanks again

 

[Stumpkiller]

Smoothbore

Rifle

 

[timothy prouty]

THANKS stump killer they are cool :bow:

 

[Billnpatti]

I know of no absolutely HC way of doing it. I think that much like today, our ancestors carried their horn and bag in whatever manner suited them personally. I am right handed. I have tried several different ways of wearing my bag and horn and have found that I seem to prefer having them on separate straps with the horn on my left and my bag on my right. Having my horn on my left is both handy for me when measuring out my powder and it keeps it further away from any sparks when I fire than if it were on my right side. Being right handed, it is just easier for me, when rummaging around in my bag, to have it on my right side where I can use my dominant hand to do the rummaging.

Right or wrong, for better or for worse, them's my preferences. :hatsoff:

 

[Ohio Joe]

Since I can remember getting into this sport/hobby (40 plus years ago), I've carried my bag and horn on my right side (I'm right handed). I don't tie my horns to my bags.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Separate for me. But, have to admit I haven't paid much attention to that detail in museums. I don't know if there is a 'hc' rule at all on this.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Since I have several horns and a single bag, I keep them separate. Each horn has a little tag with either 2F, 3F or Pyrodex P or Pyrodex RS marked on it, so there's no grabbing the wrong horn for the rifle I'm going to be carrying.

 

[excess650]

I've been carrying several different bags, depending upon caliber, but have carried the same horn regardless of caliber, so on separate straps. Although I am right handed, I prefer the bag and horn to be on the left, so opposite side of the rifle.

 

[Artificer]

I know of no absolutely HC way of doing it. I think that much like today, our ancestors carried their horn and bag in whatever manner suited them personally. I am right handed. I have tried several different ways of wearing my bag and horn and have found that I seem to prefer having them on separate straps with the horn on my left and my bag on my right. Having my horn on my left is both handy for me when measuring out my powder and it keeps it further away from any sparks when I fire than if it were on my right side. Being right handed, it is just easier for me, when rummaging around in my bag, to have it on my right side where I can use my dominant hand to do the rummaging.

Right or wrong, for better or for worse, them's my preferences. :hatsoff:

This is another reason civilians, who did things similar to you, would have carried their horns on separate straps. I see no reason it would not be HC/PC correct.

Something else occurred to me and that is if the horn is on a separate strap and one had to wade streams or small rivers, it would have been easier to hold one's gun and separate powder horn above the water level than holding a shot pouch with attached horn. You could do that with one hand while using a stick or branch in the other to test for holes/deep spots in the stream/river bed as you waded along.

That is not to say you could not do the same with the horn attached to the shot pouch though.

Gus

 

[Onojutta]

I was googling the same thing not long ago and came across an article that suggested that carrying the horn on a separate strap was more HC for the earlier days. The author suggested that attaching the horn to the possibles strap didn't come about until the percussion period. Sorry, I don't have the reference, but you might find the same article with a little bit of effort and luck.

Personally, I carry mine separately as that seems to be much more convenient, because I can handle them separately.

I just got a real nice FIW horn from www.powderhornsandmore.com that came with a leather strap that I believe is HC. However, it wasn't adjustable so I swapped it out with a jute strap that was adjustable. I could have trimmed the leather strap, but I wanted something that was adjustable on the fly to accommodate wearing different layers of clothing when hunting. Also, the leather strap seemed to ride up closer to my neck whereas the wider jute strap stays more secure on my shoulder.

I also carry the horn and bag on the same side, my right side. This will be debated until the end of time, but my reason was twofold. First, when shooting off hand or from behind a tree, carrying the horn on my right side actually puts it farther away from my lock since I shoot right handed. Some think that putting the horn on the opposite side of the lock is intuitively safer, but if you stand in a shooting position with your opposite foot forward, you will find that carrying the horn on your opposite side actually puts the horn closer to the lock. A good horn should be safe no matter what, but it can't hurt to keep it as far away from stray sparks as possible.

The other reason I carry both on my right side is also because I am right-handed; it's more natural to reach into the bag that way, and I'm not reaching across my body or using my left hand to pour powder from the horn. I grab the powder measure from the bag with my right hand, put it in my left hand, then grab the horn with my right hand and pour the powder.