Powder Preference Question

[Rifleman1776]

Hey Guys,

Anyone out there use fff in the pan and as charge?
Thanks
Mike

Only for about the last 15 to 16 years or so. I'm shooting a .50 cal and use 3Fg for both prime and main charge.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

Once you get some real experience with it, let us know what you think. :wink:
I use 4Fg exclusively because when I started this game I was taught that you are "supposed" to use it for priming. :shocked2: Got the habit and stuck with it.
Actually, I believe I can tell the difference in ignition time between 4Fg and 3Fg.
Used it all, including 2Fg in the Brown Bess and can definately tell the difference.
Plus, I have about a 20+ year supply of 4Fg on hand. Guess when it runs out I'll have to get more. :rotf:

 

[Grumpa]

I think I would have to have another use for the FFFFg.Are there any?.
RFMcD

4Fg can be used in revolvers. Lyman ran pressure tests some years ago, using an original 1860 Army fitted up with a pressure gauge, and the differences in pressure between 3Fg and 4Fg were inconsequential. 4Fg tended to give higher velocities at lower pressure. (Original revolver cartridges had powder in them as fine as, or finer than, 4Fg.)

 

[Onojutta]

I use FFFg for main charge and FFFFg for priming. Never tried FFFg for priming. I use one of those spring loaded nipples for priming the pan; I wonder if it would work the same with FFFg.

By using the little brass nipple device for priming powder, it fits nicely in the possibles bag and I never considered it an inconvenience to carry two different types of power in the field.

 

[larry wv]

I ordered some KIK 4f and 3f and 1 1/2 f today. Was going to get a can of Null B but the price was to high. Didn't know Kik made 1 1/2 or 4f. I use 3 or 4f for prime.

Larry

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

I don't understand why people use a different powder for priming :idunno:

Here is FFg powder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzgVnH6uEP0

 

[faste350]

because 4f is faster.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Pletch did a whole series of high speed videos with a whole bunch of powders, and with a whole bunch of locks. From memory, I think the Deluxe Siler was the fastest lock, and Null B was the fastest powder.

The difference between using 2Fg and 4Fg (in the pan) wasn't a lot, but in the order of about 8 milliseconds. Certainly your eyes and ears wouldn't be able to detect it. That may not sound like a lot, but if you are in standing position, and your sights are wobbling at the rate of (at 100 yards) 2" every .20 sec (which is a pretty good shooter but not Olympic class) that 8 millisecond delay can open your groups up another 2-3 inches.

Percussion locks were a LOT faster, which is part of the reason why at a shoot, a percussion gun target will be much smaller than a flint gun target.

 

[VTdeerhunter]

I use 4F in the pan just because I have it, don't notice much of a time difference from 3F but don't know what else to do with the 4F but shoot it :hmm:

 

[Donny]

I use 4f sometimes if I remember, because I bought a pound years ago. I use 3f if I am shooting 3f, I use 2f if I am shooting 2f.
I will use up the 1 lb., 10 yr supply if I live that long.

I have seen not determinable difference from 4f to 2f.

 

[Billnpatti]

Usually, I use 4f to prime my flintlocks but 3f works just fine. I use 4f for two reasons: first, I have two pounds of it and 2 pounds will last the rest of my life. Secondly, the spout in my pan charger will not work with 3f because the larger 3f granules will clog up in the small opening in the spout of my pan charger. Since I like to use my pan charger and I have enough 4f to last the rest of my life, I use it. I have not found 4f to be any better in the pan, but it just won't work in my pan charger.

Bottom line....3f works just fine in your pan. So, use it if you want. You will experience no problems with it.

 

[Mickc01]

Ditto to fff for priming and main charge. For years I have used it for .40 all the way to 10 gauge and has always worked for great for me. To paraphrase one of my earlier posts on the subject....why complicate it when you can keep it simple? Just my 2 cents....Mick C

 

[Onojutta]

Secondly, the spout in my pan charger will not work with 3f because the larger 3f granules will clog up in the small opening in the spout of my pan charger. Since I like to use my pan charger and I have enough 4f to last the rest of my life, I use it. I have not found 4f to be any better in the pan, but it just won't work in my pan charger.

Bingo.

 

[Tom Compton]

So if some want slower pan ignition ( as evidenced by using 3F or 2F) why not use 1F? Oh, but they use 3F as a main charge because it's faster. I'm confused.

My next purchase of priming powder will be Null-B.

 

[BrownBear]

Has all to do with what's already in your horn. I don't recall reading much aaaaytalllll about separate horns or separate powders back in the day most of these guns try to emulate.

I'm a field shooter and hunter rather than competitor or actor, so I don't care much about historic accuracy to a point. But I care a lot about carrying around unnecessary folderoll.

 

[Donny]

So if some want slower pan ignition ( as evidenced by using 3F or 2F) why not use 1F? Oh, but they use 3F as a main charge because it's faster. I'm confused.

My next purchase of priming powder will be Null-B.

I would use 1F if proved it was as fast as 2F or 3F or 4F. As I said, I cannot determine any SLOWER ignition with 2F as 4F. Maybe it is slower, but I can't DETERMINE it is slower. Fletch probably can. But for what I do, one powder is sufficient.

 

[Col. Batguano]

The difference is in the single digits of milliseconds. Eyes and ears have a hard time determining differences shorter than about 20-25 milliseconds.

the other drawback of 4Fg powder is that it is NOT graphite coated, which can make it slightly more hygroscopic. For some, and in some weather conditions, that can be a consideration.

 

[excess650]

Its because some of us CAN discern the quickness from ffffg to fffg. Use what YOU like, but I'll continue to do as I like. My locks take take 5, 6 and 7 (x1/8") flints and I've tried it all of them. I don't have any that take 1" or larger flints, so that is a moot point to me.

Goex ffffg appears finer than Swiss ffffg. I don't have Null B or 7FA, but will try Null B when I have the opportunity,

I tried some old Elephant fffg in my brass primer, and it doesn't flow nearly as well as ffffg.

 

[Billnpatti]

So if some want slower pan ignition ( as evidenced by using 3F or 2F) why not use 1F? Oh, but they use 3F as a main charge because it's faster. I'm confused.

My next purchase of priming powder will be Null-B.

As a matter of fact, I have seen 1f tried in a pan and it worked just fine. I don't know how reliable it would be, it was just a one time thing but it did work that time. I have tried 2f in my pan on a few occasions just because I wanted to. It worked too. Like I said, I use 4f because it works in my pan charger and because I have a few pounds of it. I also have some Null B. It works, too. I wouldn't buy it again because I have found no real advantage to it and it costs a darn sight more than Goex. To give you an idea of the relative cost, back when I lived in Indiana and could buy Goex at Friendship for $8.50 a pound (around 2005), I picked up several pounds of Goex and a can of Null B. The Null B set me back something around $23 a pound. I just had to give it a try. It didn't work any better than the Goex 4f I had been using. But, if you just want to spend the money to give it a try, it works fine.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

You know with all that different testing that Pletch did with the super high speed film and recordings, he timed them and the 4f was a smidgeon faster than 2f, but the difference was not discernible without his measuring equipment. He was comparing 4f and 2f, which you would expect would really be significant right? Well it wasn't. 4f was a piddling 8 thousandths of a second faster than the 2f granulation. For your reference, very few people can discern any differences less than 20 to 25 thousandths of a second.

Now, I'm not saying don't use 4f for priming if you want to give it a go. Perhaps it gives you more confidence or perhaps it catches a spark better with the way you have your rifle set up, or perhaps you just like buying extra stuff, carrying it around and maintaining it. Do what you like to do. It's your choice for what you're shooting. Just don't kid yourself that it is significantly faster burning than 3F.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

That was pretty much the direction I was going when I had posted my response as it was more rhetorical than anything else.

Whatever makes you happy if it works for you. I just don't see the need for it.