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Plum Brown ?

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Ben Athens

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I am re-doing a rifle and want to redo the brown finish. I just about have all of the old brown off the barrel now.

My question is, is there any thing wrong with using the Brichwood Casey Plum brown? I have used it in the past with good results. On here folks seem to prefer the LMF stuff.

Thanks,

Ben.
 
I've used Plum Brown with so-so results! LMF is easier to use and does a better job in my opinion! Check at the top of this forum and it will explain LMF to you!
 
No, there's nothing really wrong with using it provided you are after the look it will give.

By that I mean, you can apply it to a highly polished surface and you will end up with a brown highly polished surface. Applied to a matt surface you will end up with a brown matt surface.

My biggest complaint with Plum Brown (PB) is that the surface needs to be absolutly oil/wax free and it usually takes me at least 3 applications to get a unstreaked coating.
If the surface is too hot (above 300 degrees F) or too cold (below 240 degrees F) the solution will either flash off leaving crusty things that don't brown the surface or it will deposit a layer of copper which must be sanded off and rebrowned.

I use it on small, easy to heat parts like cocks, hammers, steel trigger guards and other small steel parts and have had good success.

On larger items like a barrel it is difficult to maintain the correct temperature with a propane torch and although I've done several barrels using PB I think some of the browning was due to my language :cursing: rather than the solution.
 
I only use plum Brown on small parts like zonie said. Anything large calls for laurel moutain forge. Browning solution.
 
Bencattin,
I am building my first kit rifle.I used plum brown for the first time on my small parts and the job came out ok,however,I don't think I would try to use it for the barrel.It was just to much to do,even with the small parts,for me, to achieve an even coating.The parts look ok after 4 coats but was to much fuss-in around.I had to constantly reheat my parts as the proper temperature for browning would escape the steel.I am glad that I am using the cold method of browning on the barrel.
Rusty Spur
 
I did a 36 inch barrel for a kit gun a few years ago. I kept it evenly heat by utilizing my gas grill out on the deck. Worked well for me and it was quick. I read thru the LMF info at the top of the page . May have to try it.
 
The secret I found for working with Plum Brown is to suspend the barrel so its hang vertically. Then, start at the bottom, heating the barrel with a propane torch. What heat "Escapes" the immediate area, RISES' and begins heating the barrel above where you are working. I kept the torch working just ahead of where I was applying the plum brown. The Steel Browns Immediately! I got a very nice dark brown finish. As I worked up the barrel, of course, some of the acid washed down over the area I had already browned, leaving a yellowish residue. But, I worked the barrel, doing one flat at a time, and turning the barrel to do all 8 flats in one section- about 4-6 inches long , before going further up the barrel.

I let it cool, until I could hold it in my hands and make a visual inspection. I found a few places where there was bare metal between "Strokes". I reheated those sections of the barrel, and applied the acid, until the brown was blended evenly. Then I let the barrels cool again.

I washed the barrel off in tap water, scrubbing off the white/yellow residue. You do have to flush the entire working surface with alcohol to remove all oils, including the oils in your own fingerprints, before this process begins, or you get spots, or fingerprints on the finish. Likewise, after rinsing, if you see bare metal you missed, again, and have to heat the barrel up again, flush the barrel liberally with alcohol to remove your fingerprints, and handle the barrel with paper towels, or rubber gloves that are clean of grease and oils. I suspended my barrels from a coat hanger, hung over the rail for my garage door.I left the door up to give better ventilation for the fumes, and opened the door to the house up so that the warm air would come out of the house, and push the fumes out of the garage as they rose.

To Darken the Brown, I then heated the barrel up, this time sweeping my torch up and down the barrels to get them very hot, and then sprayed the barrels with WD40. The oil and the dryers in it burn, and creates fumes you don't want to breathe, so stay upwind of the barrels. The spray itself will indicate the direction of any wind currents for you to watch.

Burning the oil into the pores of the steel left a nice "Hershey-Chocolate" Brown barrel finish. Over the past 30 years, the finish has lightened a bit in UV light exposure, but its still a durable finish, and remains attractive. I get other shooters asking me about the finish every time I shoot the gun.

You can not get good results with this finish if you try to apply it to a cold steel barrel, or to even a Warm barrel. The barrel has to be hotter than the boiling temperature of water( 212 Degrees F.) to work at all.

I think the directions talk about 275 degrees, but you have to heat the barrel a lot hotter is you use a stove, as it begins to lose heat as soon as the barrel is removed from the heat. Its a race against time, and when the steel cools too much, you will have "patches".

You may want to have an "Assistant" to hold and sweep the torch on the barrel for you while you use both hands to deal with the brush, and barrel. I didn't have an assistant, but managed to deal with the barrel by walking around it as it hung from the garage door rail. There obviously is some planning that has to go into this kind of project, but you can do it.

Not everyone likes the color brown I achieved, nor is willing to do this kind of work that I describe. That is fair. Those who prefer the cold brown solutions, like Laurel Mountain Forge sells, use different techniques, and sped a few days to get the results.

When I did my work, I was impatient to get this kit gun completed, and into the field, so that I could get used to it for the upcoming hunting season. I was not my most "patient" self, I admit. The Hot Brown method, using B/C Plum Brown solution served my purpose.

The LMF products were not then available. I look forward to using them on a gun I want to Rust Blue.
 
By using my outdoor gas grill I am able to provide a more consistant heat over a much larger area of the barrel. I use coat hangers to suspend the barrel and rotate it as I apply the chemical. Worked well before. Going to try it again this week.
 
I've had very good relults with plum brown on small parts. I've never used it on a barrel.

MSM used to make a hot brown that worked equally well.

I'd say LMF is easier for all applications.
 
Thank you for the picture. That is the kind of finish I am looking for on this particular barrel.Its going to take more time to brown a barrel that is that smooth, but when rust blued it will look right. :hatsoff: :hatsoff:
 
This is the second time in a few weeks I think I've read a reference by you, or someone else, I apologize if I'm confused on who's saying what, to pores in the metal. I also thought I've read in the past that it would be impossible for something like bore butter to season a barrel of a modern gun since there are no pores in the metal and the stuff TC is saying about seasoning the bore is pretty much bunk. Which is it? If there are pores for the WD-40 to get into why can't these same pores get some of the bore butter in them? Thanks, just really really curious about this. Many here say to never use bore butter. Many also say they use it all the time.
 
IMO, Paul should have said the oil sinks into the pores of the browning, not the pores of the steel.

Browning is a form of hard rust and it is porous.
Because it is porous it will absorb oil and hold it against the steel that lays underneath it stopping further rusting.


As for Bore Butter, it is best discussed in the shooting accessories section rather than here in The Gun Builders Bench unless someone wants to tell us why it works real good for sealing their browning. :)
 
Zonie is correct. I thank him for correcting me. I know what I am talking about: I just don't always say it well! :surrender: :nono: :shocked2: :rotf:

The pores that would need to be present in a steel barrel to allow "seasoning" simply Can't be there, because other products- more carbon, chromium, and other alloys fill those "pores".

The fine holes under rust are way too small to allow seasoning. Both can be called pores, but the one is really surface rust, rather than holes in the steel itself.

Sorry for the confusion. You can't season a modern steel barrel. T/C was wrong and is still wrong for telling folks that.

Blame the Admen who work to sell stuff for these companies. They come out of IVY League schools, trying to prove themselves as salesmen, without a clue about the products they are trying to sell- and no interest in learning about them, either. Their degrees are from the Barnum and Bailey School of Economics- "There is a sucker born every minute"-- Not from a school on firearms.
 
paulvallandigham said:
The pores that would need to be present in a steel barrel to allow "seasoning" simply Can't be there, because other products- more carbon, chromium, and other alloys fill those "pores".

1) Carbon does not fill the interstatial spaces (what you call pores) in steel, the atoms are too large. Yes there can be porosity in cast iron but that is due to the casting method rather than the materials itself - http://www.uv.es/EBRIT/macro/macro_5003_11_53.html

2) If Carbon did fill those vacancies than Cast Iron would be even less likely to be able to be seasoned (whihc it commonly is) since it has much more carbon than any barrel steel - cast iron = 2% or more carbon.
One of the most common barrels steels is 12L14 has only .14% and even 4140 has only .40%.

The other alloys in 12L14 are as follows:
Iron (Fe) 97.91 - 98.7%
Carbon (C) 0.15% max
Manganese (Mn) 0.85 - 1.15%
Phosphorus (P) 0.04 - 0.09%
Lead (Pb) 0.15 - 0.35%
Sulfur (S) 0.26 - 0.35%

As for cast Iron, it is not pure iron and has not only a very high carbon content but cast ironalso containf in varying amounts: silicon, manganese, and traces of impurities such as sulfur and phosphorus - many of the same alloys as 12L14.

Break out the books - the metallurgy of steel and iron is a fascinating and complicated subject and one I've chosen to learn more than a bit about since I'm a knifemaker, but I do not claim to be an expert (James Kelly and Kevin Cashen to name but two) but I do know some and would be glad to put you in contact with.....
 
Thanks for the offer. I still have friends who are professional machinists, and gunsmiths, who have more reason to know all the details of various metals than I ever will. I have made knives, but all involved stock reduction, rather than forging. I was very interested in all this back when I was learning to make knives, but not now. I don't have the equipment set up to make knives, and I have all the knives I could possibly use the rest of my life. I now sharpen knives for friends, only.

Thanks for the comments about steels and cast iron. I am sure you are correct, as nothing you posted differs radically from materials I have read in my past. I am sure that other members and readers will find good use for this added information. :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:
 

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