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Philadelphia Derringer Penetration - Redux w/ pics

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morehops52

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I posted a very similar thread here two weeks ago and I was asked for pictures as well (post was on 10/10 if interested). So I decided to do it over with a bit more info and add some pics. I used 11 sheets of corrugated cardboard , a sheet of 7/32" T-111 wood siding (pronounced "Tee-one eleven " around here) and 2 more cardboard as my target and backstop backed up with an old stump. I shot from a measured 4 feet which I judged to be just out of an assailants reach. Using a .440 ball and tight patch my goal was to get some idea of how this pocket pistol might fare in a situation it was designed for as long as the assailant was cardboard and siding :). I figured I'd start with 20g 3f then go to 30 and 40g. The results were very similar to last time.

20g - passed thru 5 layers cardboard embedded in 6th.
30g - passed thru all layers, barely a mark on stump.
40g - passed thru all layers and left a dent in the stump about a third of a ball deep. significant boom!

Being realistic, this pistol is no competition for any modern mutli-shot arm or even an 1800's revolver. It would be considered a last ditch weapon and hopefully would be backed up with a bowie knife.
Noting the poor performance of the 20g load (5 layers cardboard) I would not use that for defense or even as a finishing shot on game. It does make a dandy noisemaker!!
IMG_2426.jpg
My Traditions kit gun. I'd rate it about a 5 out of 10. IMG_2428.jpg
I use a full hand hold. It feels so much better this way. That's my middle finger on the trigger. No trigger finesse needed here. There is no fly on this lock so you need a quick strong pull to avoid catching on half cock.
IMG_2429.jpg
With my choked up grip the finger points at the target.
IMG_2435.jpg
Shots L-R - 20, 30, 40g. All 2" or less @ 4 feet. Note Brown cardboard above white paper.
IMG_2441.jpg
Peppered with unburned powder. Outer edge is at least a foot from bull. No, the extra powder does make a difference. The sound and penetration proved it too me anyway. But it also shows that bird shot is probably not a good option except for snakes or a shot to the face. Heavy clothing would defeat a spread pattern like this.
IMG_2438.jpg
Back side of wood siding. 30g on top , 40g below. Passed thru 11 pieces of corrugated to get to the wood. 30g would seem like enough but as the 40g was easily manageable and the big boom could be disorienting that would be my choice.

This is more of a novelty than a serious pistol. I didn't inlet the escutcheons because I don't give a manure. Same with the wonderful hammer that needs bent and no, I've already read up on it and screw it. For as much as I expect to use it I won't go to the trouble. I also cut the stem from the grossly oversized front sight and just used the nub as that's all that's really needed. But is does shoot and that's what it was made for.
 
Correct. The first time it only dented the 6th and was found in the bottom of the box. Both times the ball was almost as new and could’ve been reloaded.
 
So the 20gr. never made it through the siding? Just 5 layers of cardboard?
IIRC I read a post about a screw barrel pistol might have been a Queen Anne. Said the standard 10g load barely penetrated 3 layers of cardboard. My slingshot does better.
 
Correct. The first time it only dented the 6th and was found in the bottom of the box. Both times the ball was almost as new and could’ve been reloaded.
so card board makes for a good bullet proof vest against it?
 
I posted a very similar thread here two weeks ago and I was asked for pictures as well (post was on 10/10 if interested). So I decided to do it over with a bit more info and add some pics. I used 11 sheets of corrugated cardboard , a sheet of 7/32" T-111 wood siding (pronounced "Tee-one eleven " around here) and 2 more cardboard as my target and backstop backed up with an old stump. I shot from a measured 4 feet which I judged to be just out of an assailants reach. Using a .440 ball and tight patch my goal was to get some idea of how this pocket pistol might fare in a situation it was designed for as long as the assailant was cardboard and siding :). I figured I'd start with 20g 3f then go to 30 and 40g. The results were very similar to last time.

20g - passed thru 5 layers cardboard embedded in 6th.
30g - passed thru all layers, barely a mark on stump.
40g - passed thru all layers and left a dent in the stump about a third of a ball deep. significant boom!

Being realistic, this pistol is no competition for any modern mutli-shot arm or even an 1800's revolver. It would be considered a last ditch weapon and hopefully would be backed up with a bowie knife.
Noting the poor performance of the 20g load (5 layers cardboard) I would not use that for defense or even as a finishing shot on game. It does make a dandy noisemaker!!
View attachment 170460
My Traditions kit gun. I'd rate it about a 5 out of 10. View attachment 170461
I use a full hand hold. It feels so much better this way. That's my middle finger on the trigger. No trigger finesse needed here. There is no fly on this lock so you need a quick strong pull to avoid catching on half cock.
View attachment 170464
With my choked up grip the finger points at the target.
View attachment 170465
Shots L-R - 20, 30, 40g. All 2" or less @ 4 feet. Note Brown cardboard above white paper.
View attachment 170466
Peppered with unburned powder. Outer edge is at least a foot from bull. No, the extra powder does make a difference. The sound and penetration proved it too me anyway. But it also shows that bird shot is probably not a good option except for snakes or a shot to the face. Heavy clothing would defeat a spread pattern like this.
View attachment 170467
Back side of wood siding. 30g on top , 40g below. Passed thru 11 pieces of corrugated to get to the wood. 30g would seem like enough but as the 40g was easily manageable and the big boom could be disorienting that would be my choice.

This is more of a novelty than a serious pistol. I didn't inlet the escutcheons because I don't give a manure. Same with the wonderful hammer that needs bent and no, I've already read up on it and screw it. For as much as I expect to use it I won't go to the trouble. I also cut the stem from the grossly oversized front sight and just used the nub as that's all that's really needed. But is does shoot and that's what it was made for.
The victim might die of infection from the powder burns first. ;-)
Thanks for the testing as I have always wondered how they performed. Knowing what you do now, what is your opinion of how J.W.B.'s was loaded to take out Lincoln?
 
I posted a very similar thread here two weeks ago and I was asked for pictures as well (post was on 10/10 if interested). So I decided to do it over with a bit more info and add some pics. I used 11 sheets of corrugated cardboard , a sheet of 7/32" T-111 wood siding (pronounced "Tee-one eleven " around here) and 2 more cardboard as my target and backstop backed up with an old stump. I shot from a measured 4 feet which I judged to be just out of an assailants reach. Using a .440 ball and tight patch my goal was to get some idea of how this pocket pistol might fare in a situation it was designed for as long as the assailant was cardboard and siding :). I figured I'd start with 20g 3f then go to 30 and 40g. The results were very similar to last time.

20g - passed thru 5 layers cardboard embedded in 6th.
30g - passed thru all layers, barely a mark on stump.
40g - passed thru all layers and left a dent in the stump about a third of a ball deep. significant boom!

Being realistic, this pistol is no competition for any modern mutli-shot arm or even an 1800's revolver. It would be considered a last ditch weapon and hopefully would be backed up with a bowie knife.
Noting the poor performance of the 20g load (5 layers cardboard) I would not use that for defense or even as a finishing shot on game. It does make a dandy noisemaker!!
View attachment 170460
My Traditions kit gun. I'd rate it about a 5 out of 10. View attachment 170461
I use a full hand hold. It feels so much better this way. That's my middle finger on the trigger. No trigger finesse needed here. There is no fly on this lock so you need a quick strong pull to avoid catching on half cock.
View attachment 170464
With my choked up grip the finger points at the target.
View attachment 170465
Shots L-R - 20, 30, 40g. All 2" or less @ 4 feet. Note Brown cardboard above white paper.
View attachment 170466
Peppered with unburned powder. Outer edge is at least a foot from bull. No, the extra powder does make a difference. The sound and penetration proved it too me anyway. But it also shows that bird shot is probably not a good option except for snakes or a shot to the face. Heavy clothing would defeat a spread pattern like this.
View attachment 170467
Back side of wood siding. 30g on top , 40g below. Passed thru 11 pieces of corrugated to get to the wood. 30g would seem like enough but as the 40g was easily manageable and the big boom could be disorienting that would be my choice.

This is more of a novelty than a serious pistol. I didn't inlet the escutcheons because I don't give a manure. Same with the wonderful hammer that needs bent and no, I've already read up on it and screw it. For as much as I expect to use it I won't go to the trouble. I also cut the stem from the grossly oversized front sight and just used the nub as that's all that's really needed. But is does shoot and that's what it was made for.
Fun test! Nice work! My little Spanish Deringer is almost a dead ringer for you Traditions-marked one. Thanks!
 
I posted a very similar thread here two weeks ago and I was asked for pictures as well (post was on 10/10 if interested). So I decided to do it over with a bit more info and add some pics. I used 11 sheets of corrugated cardboard , a sheet of 7/32" T-111 wood siding (pronounced "Tee-one eleven " around here) and 2 more cardboard as my target and backstop backed up with an old stump. I shot from a measured 4 feet which I judged to be just out of an assailants reach. Using a .440 ball and tight patch my goal was to get some idea of how this pocket pistol might fare in a situation it was designed for as long as the assailant was cardboard and siding :). I figured I'd start with 20g 3f then go to 30 and 40g. The results were very similar to last time.

20g - passed thru 5 layers cardboard embedded in 6th.
30g - passed thru all layers, barely a mark on stump.
40g - passed thru all layers and left a dent in the stump about a third of a ball deep. significant boom!

Being realistic, this pistol is no competition for any modern mutli-shot arm or even an 1800's revolver. It would be considered a last ditch weapon and hopefully would be backed up with a bowie knife.
Noting the poor performance of the 20g load (5 layers cardboard) I would not use that for defense or even as a finishing shot on game. It does make a dandy noisemaker!!
View attachment 170460
My Traditions kit gun. I'd rate it about a 5 out of 10. View attachment 170461
I use a full hand hold. It feels so much better this way. That's my middle finger on the trigger. No trigger finesse needed here. There is no fly on this lock so you need a quick strong pull to avoid catching on half cock.
View attachment 170464
With my choked up grip the finger points at the target.
View attachment 170465
Shots L-R - 20, 30, 40g. All 2" or less @ 4 feet. Note Brown cardboard above white paper.
View attachment 170466
Peppered with unburned powder. Outer edge is at least a foot from bull. No, the extra powder does make a difference. The sound and penetration proved it too me anyway. But it also shows that bird shot is probably not a good option except for snakes or a shot to the face. Heavy clothing would defeat a spread pattern like this.
View attachment 170467
Back side of wood siding. 30g on top , 40g below. Passed thru 11 pieces of corrugated to get to the wood. 30g would seem like enough but as the 40g was easily manageable and the big boom could be disorienting that would be my choice.

This is more of a novelty than a serious pistol. I didn't inlet the escutcheons because I don't give a manure. Same with the wonderful hammer that needs bent and no, I've already read up on it and screw it. For as much as I expect to use it I won't go to the trouble. I also cut the stem from the grossly oversized front sight and just used the nub as that's all that's really needed. But is does shoot and that's what it was made for.
Sir;
Thanks for taking the time to make a report the results.
Hector
 
FWIW, over the years I've unloaded a number of original Deringer and Derringer copies that were found loaded. Powder charges seemed to range from 35-45 grains in guns with .40-.50 caliber barrels.
 
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