Pedersoli "Gibbs" .451

[BWaddy]

I recently noticed that Pedersoli has produced a reproduction of the 1865 Gibbs English target rifle. Has anyone had any experience with bullets for the .451 caliber 1 in 18 twist rifles? My paper patching skills are terrible, and this .451 thingy is something I know ZERO about. ANY info would be of great help!

Bret

 

[robinghewitt]

That is tight a tight spiral :shocking:

I have a 1 in 24 .451 with a slight choke that I use with a Pedersoli mould casting a suppository with 6 grease grooves. I have a gizmo that fills the grooves perfectly just before loading but it's just as easy to wipe it on. The barrel is by Hollis and Sheath who built it as a tape wound core to carry the rifling with a twist outer to give it strength.

I can't recommend much because no matter what lube or charge I put down it it is totally consistant at 100 yards.

Rather boring really which is why I prefer an Enfield ::

 

Shoot a bore sized bullet that is up to .001" larger than the bore. Try for a 400gr. to 600 gr. bullet. Lyman makes the proper moulds - check out the BP mould listing on-line at their web site.
; The 18" twist will be more accurate at longer ranges & with heavier bullets than slower twists. That is, the rifle will be accurate IF the barrel is properly made & is consistant one end to the other & of high quality. It also must be bedded properly in the stock. With a slug gun, rifled for shooting long bullets, the barrel/breech/nipple system must be up to the task of handling pressures up to 30,000CUP. Light charges up to 90gr., per say, will only develope pressures up to 22,000CUP. Compared to round ball guns with pressures in the 15,000 range as being max, we are talking almost double these RB presures.
: You will want to use Swiss powder if possible, as it will duplicate the original powders used in this type of rifle. Typical charges will run 65 to 120gr., depending on what you want to do with it or what the mfg'r suggests. You may use any BP or BP sustitute you want, but pure BP will generally give the best accuracy a sit is more consistantin pressure & velocity.
; Lyman's BP bullet lube is good, as is SPL and probably Bore Butter(Ox Yoke) in "stick" form for a lube sizer - I bought some, but havne't tried it yet.
: I would purchase Lee's .451 sizer die with holding body for sizing down all manner of regular .457" to .459" bullets. This would be a great gun for me to own, having shot cast bullets in .45 for 30 odd years- almost as many moulds as years of doing it.

 

[BWaddy]

Thanks for the info. From what I have been able to scour from the net, this ML seems to be extremely accurate at LONG distances. All I intend to do with this particular ML is to punch holes in paper. I was also considering swaging the bullets to increase my options for trying different bullet weights. Corbin seems to have some nice quality equipment.

I've never tried any Swiss BP, as I have always had great luck with GOEX. I may have to give the ol' Swiss a try!

Bret

 

Oh, swaging - Corbin - I'm certain Dave will be happy to sell you a thousand dollars worth of dies and a press to do one bullet. After that, it's only $500 or so for another set of dies in another calibre. These might be Canadian dollars at work here, but the point is that swaging is a very high dollar sport, in itself. The quickest, and for experimentation purposes, cheapest method is the Lee die with a normal reloading press. These will swage down normal, oversized .45 cal bullets for use in the rifle, and do it for hundreds of dollars less.

 

[reskite]

Try 90gr Swiss 1 1/2 powder and a Buffalo Arms swaged 500 or 550gr .45cal paper patch bullet. Go ahead and get their paper patching setup. Once you practice with it a little bit, you will not have any trouble. They sell guides that make it a lot easier to get the patches cut correctly. I apply them wet and finger lube the bullets right before firing. You will probably go through a lot of nipples as the pressures generated by this heavy charge is considerably greater than your average roundball gun. A lot of LRML shooters routinely use a new nipple after 20 shots or so. I have gotten inch and a half 5 shot groups at 100 yards this way.

The recoil will get your attention, by the way, especially if you shoot the rifle without a recoil pad over the steel buttplate and without adding a little weight.

 

[Zonie]

The 1:18 twist in my .40 cal Schuetzen works great with either a 330 or 400 grain PP bullet. (IMO a PP .40 cal bullet measuring 1.310 long is kinda neat.)
Although the patched bullet is under bore size during loading, it expands during firing to take the rifleing so even the 400 grain slug is stable enough to cut a perfectly round hole at 100 yards.

I am shooting pure lead smooth bodied paper patch style bullets from "Montana Precision Swaging". They don't have a web site but their phone number is 406-494-0600. They are located in Butte, Mt.

A rifle made for PP bullets has shallow grooves. I don't know if the Gibbs uses shallow or deep grooves but this could determine what you would want to shoot in one.

 

[BWaddy]

Oh, swaging - Corbin - I'm certain Dave will be happy to sell you a thousand dollars worth of dies and a press to do one bullet. After that, it's only $500 or so for another set of dies in another calibre. These might be Canadian dollars at work here, but the point is that swaging is a very high dollar sport, in itself. The quickest, and for experimentation purposes, cheapest method is the Lee die with a normal reloading press. These will swage down normal, oversized .45 cal bullets for use in the rifle, and do it for hundreds of dollars less.

:relax:

Bret

 

[musketman]

I am shooting pure lead smooth bodied paper patch style bullets from "Montana Precision Swaging". They don't have a web site but their phone number is 406-494-0600. They are located in Butte, Mt.

Here is their manufacturers profile:

Montana Precision Swaging Inc

 

[ResearchPress]

These are accurate rifles and becoming popular with long range riflemen who previously were limited to the Parker-Hale Volunteers and original match rifles or having a rifle custom built.

I use 90 grains of TPPH, a plain card wad and a paper patched 540 grain bullet for 200-600 yards. Out to 1000 yards I have been shooting 95 grains of TPPH and at a recent 1100 & 1200 yard shoot successfully used 105 grains. TPPH is the UK proof house powder and nearest equivalent is probably Swiss #4 (1.5F).

Bullets don't need to be a tight fit, pretty well dropping down the barrel with just the weight of the ram rod. I use a 40:1 lead:tin mix. When shooting at long range you might want to consider pre-weighing your charges.

Nipples can burn out quickly. I replaced mine with one that is platinum lined.

Have a look at the long range muzzle loader web site at www.lrml.org which has an associated email discussion list.

David

 

Thanks for that site, David. I have long had an interest in long range slug shooting with a MuzzleLoader. Ned Roberts instilled that in me many years ago with "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle."

 

[BWaddy]

The Gibbs will be here tomorrow! I'll slug the barrel and go from there. I'll start melting up some ingots in Pure, 50-1, and 40-1 while I'm waiting for the UPS guy. I found some Swiss #4 to try out. I have also started reading the[url] lrml.org[/url] group. Time fly's when you're having fun! :thumbsup:

Bret