Pedersoli 2nd Model Brown Bess

[Ray-Vigo]

I would love a lefty Bess/Charleville/Springfield --anything of that sort. I'm an avid target shooter with smooth bores (metal silhouettes, paper, clay pigeons) but can't bring myself to put the big bucks down on a righty gun. I've shot them, but find the lefty guns more comfortable to shoot.

AmericanLongRifles forum had a VERY nice, custom Bess come up for sale last year (I think). It was a righty though...

I shoot every month with my local club here in Virginia, and we have had a couple guys with Besses show up the past couple of months. They were both Pedesoli guns, I believe. They're a lot of fun.

One of my former shooting buddies has been working on this:
http://www.greyhavenarms.com/Pages/RestockingtheBrownBess.aspx

 

[SgtErv]

Dag on that's a beautiful job. Thanks for sharing that.

"Bess is a buxom lass but her sex appeal is in the wrist"

Too true. After handling this and shouldering it, buxom is the right word. Probably the same when firing. Ha!

I did find an adapter so I can use 12 gauge accessories with the steel rammer. I'm in business!

(Thompson Center makes a 10x32 to 5/16" adapter)

 

[Artificer]

Having noted a painted wood block with a leather flap over it would be authentic for a frontier militiaman in the 18th century; when they thought of protection against rain and snow, they used leather.

A very common cartridge pouch in that period would have been a wood block with holes in it covered in a pouch made of either one piece of folded and sewn leather or two pieces of leather sewed together. This pouch would have been sewn inside out, wetted down and then turned right side out and the wood block put in the pouch. Then either a large single leather flap to cover the top of the pouch or a large flap over a smaller inside flap that further helped keep water/snow away from the paper cartridges. The large flap or large flap and small inner flap were sewn to the back of the pouch after it was turned inside out.

To keep down on cost, the shoulder sling could have been made of woven hemp or other woven material/cloth or also made of leather, if available.

The wood block may have only had a single row of holes or probably at most two rows, at least until the AWI began.

Back in the 70's, many of us thought that a Black Dyed pouch may not have been as common for a militiaman as a brown pouch. However we have learned a whole lot more about Vinegaroon Dye since then. Since that dye was made from Iron pieces/filings in vinegar, black pouches were probably more common than we once thought.

Besides other sources for original shot pouches, here is a good link for them. https://www.scribd.com/document/264830571/Arms-Accoutrements-American-Cartridge-Pouches-Boxes

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Oh, and BTW such a cartridge pouch did not/does not take a skilled leather worker to make. I made one and it was only the second shot pouch I ever made. I worked completely off photographs and the cartridge block I had on hand with no other directions and was able to make a good pouch the first time by putting some thought into it. This after the first shot pouch I made from split cowhide had turned out fairly well made, but a complete flop in usage.

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

These cartridge boxes or blocks are associated with my unit which interprets a British Grenadier company in the F&I War.

The Belly Box is easy to make. In our unit the wood block is painted red as documented in Unit museums. Black is the more common color for the box for colonial units. As you see by the curve on the block for the belly box, the belt goes to the outside of the box. This helps to keep the box from flipping over and is more comfortable. All the holes are 7/8" in diameter.

My cartridge bag has the two row, 20 cartridge, block. It is constructed as Gus has posted. I have the two flaps. I have two layers of leather in back of the block to hold simple tools to change out a flint or tighten a flint. Under the block I carry more flints, cleaning worms and tow. The strap is leather and I have the Grenadier's match case attached to the strap. In the slot at the tip of the strap I carry the vent pick and pan brush.

By the time of the AWI the belly box was reduced by one row to 9 cartridges and the shoulder pouch block was enlarged to 30 cartridges by adding one more row. Actual quantities varied for each unit.

 

[SgtErv]

I'm definitely going with something along the lines of the bottom one, maybe even the Rawles pattern.

 

[Artificer]

Excellent photo's and information! Enjoyed looking at them. Great point about the belt going over the outside of the cartridge box to help make sure id does not twist or even turn over when worn. I, like most in my unit, had to remount the straps on the fronts of our repro boxes, because most "Belly Boxes" made today have the straps on the "wrong" side.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

I'm definitely going with something along the lines of the bottom one, maybe even the Rawles pattern.

May I suggest something to think about? If you go with the Rawles Pattern Cartridge Pouch, it will not be "correct" for you as a Militia Man in 1774 to until those pattern Pouches began to show up with British Troops. You could make a Cartridge Pouch with some of the features of the Rawles and other Pouches, but still be correct for the first years at your Fort all the way through and after the AWI, but just not a rather close/exact copy of the Rawles Pouch.

Gus

 

[SgtErv]

Great point. I have a friend cobbling together one for me now, actually. It's close to the Skethbook 76 pattern, except with a few less holes and a simpler cover.

I made half a dozen cartridges yesterday. For half I used heavier paper, the other half was newsprint (Shakespeare no less) from a duplicate copy of the book. The first three are not pretty, but I got the hang of it. The newsprint is far superior, pretty much perfect for cartridges. I looked up a few examples, and went with the bottom bands by the ball tied with a strand of hemp string then the top folded into a tab and tucked into the top string that can come out easily before a range trip, so a cross between French and English versions. (I'll make some dummy cartridges for the fort in either pattern, but for the range I like these)

I had way too much fun with those. A 100 grain 2F charge will be pretty fun too!

 

[SgtErv]

 

[Crewdawg445]

Oh boy... that's one fine beautiful smoothie! I must have one!!!

 

[SgtErv]

Dude, Crewdawg...Besses are on sale right now pretty much everywhere. This Pedersoli is a TANK. I've never handled a flintlock that just felt like it's designed to be used hard like a machine gun. This one definitely is. And it's aesthetics are different than a rifle, very cool in their own way. The word that comes to mind is "robust." Definitely a military rifle. But as big as it is it handles well.

I'm really impressed with Pedersoli. The lock functions wonderfully, nice heavy spring. The trigger pull is indeed a bit heavy, but it's what one would expect. The stock is figured well for walnut and finished nicely. Wood to metal fit is perfect.

Really looking forward to loading and firing in a military fashion with cartridges. I wanted to try smoothbore and figured this would be the best way.

And...well...almost have to get a bayonet. Not almost. Have to. Yep.

 

[Artificer]

There are a host of possibilities for different repro bayonets, scabbards, frogs, etc. since you are doing Militia - and especially fine points and some things that are not well known. Man, do we have a data dump for you for things to watch out for, run away from, look for and other good info. :grin:

However, I wonder if we should start a new thread in either the Accoutrements section or maybe even better the Historically Accurate Equipment section?

Gus

 

[willowbilly]

Oh, you are so hooked!

 

[willowbilly]

I have a Concord cartridge pouch, a double frog, and a BB bayonet scabbard by MinuteMan Armoury.

They are extremely well made.

Having seen how they are made I do believe I could make them myself. I have made hunting pouches and other accouterments that turned out well.

 

[SgtErv]

Good call Gus.

Yeah, HogFamily...I was hooked a long time ago :rotf: Dod you see the use of Shakespeare for cartridges? That newsprint book was cheap.

I'll leave this thread for the range trips :grin:

 

[Crewdawg445]

They are nice, best production guns on the market!

Personally I would refinish the stock, I don't know what method they use for finishing the stocks, possibly dipping? But not acceptable IMHO. I always strip the the stocks and make them perdy!

Love the cartridges by the way!

 

[Artificer]

One question for the accoutrements for your Bess.

Do you or does the Fort have documentation on knowledge of Fort Ligonier in PA? Also, not sure how far away Prickett's Fort was from Ligonier.

The reason I ask is because Ligonier was abandoned/closed in 1766, just 8 years before your Fort was built. There has been some impressive details on accoutrements found in excavations at Fort Ligonier that may/should have some bearing on what you might use at your Fort, perhaps?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ligonier

Gus

 

[SgtErv]

The Ligonoer excavations for part of the general knowledge base we use, certainly, but it's backwoods militia at Pricketts, pretty much exclusively. I'll start another accoutrement thread over in historically accurate equipment

So I took this bad lad out to the range today. WOW! That's an entirely different ball game! I'm impressed. Waaaay too much fun shooting paper cartridges. Man, that is just awesome!!

I did have some trouble cleaning it though. I'm not sure whether my equipment (12 gauge jags, brushes, giant tshirt patches, and mops) aren't up to the task or I am doing something wrong. I did a couple 20 ounces of water and windex, did the pump up and down with the rammer, got all the fouling out fine. I used some WD 40 to wipe out excess moisture. I've run probably 50 patches through it, though, and it's still grayish. Weird. I'm going to going to keep cleaning. I may need to alter my routine from rifle cleaning. Thoughts?

 

[Artificer]

The "gray" that showed up on the patches may very well be old oil/preservative/s in the bore and/or a combination of that and a mixture of it with the WD 40.

Long ago I gave up on what I consider to be a myth about waiting until you get a completely clean patch out of a bore. There always seems to be some trace of solvent, oil, preservative or whatever - no matter how many patches you put down a bore.

Gus