Patch Porn

[PrimitiveHunter]

Shot my persussion GPR again today. This is just the third outing.

First time, I shot a .490 ball, .010" pre-lubed patch, and 50gr Pyrodex RS. Spit patch after each shot. Results were really good at 25 yards. All patches were solid.

Second time, everything was the same except I shot 65gr powder trying to burn it up quicker. It still shot good but there were a few holes in a few of the patches. I figured it was the increased powder. I ran a spit patch every other shot.

This time, I went back to 50gr powder. I'm working on a cleaning plan more than a shooting plan so I was just trying to get it dirty. I ran a spit patch every six shots just to see if it got hard to load. It loaded smooth and easy every time. But now my pattern has opened up considerably and most of the patches I found looked like these two in the pic.

When I first started cleaning it, it was tearing holes in the cleaning patches. I ran through the whole cleaning routine using hot soapy water and then clean hot water to rinse. I don't have a bore light (yet) but from what I can see, the barrel is shiney all the way down. I wrapped some scotchbrite around a .22 brush, oiled it up, and ran it about 50 times. Then I ran dry patches till they were clean. I soaked the scotchbrite in Barricade and ran another 50 strokes or so. The ran dry patches till they were clean. The ran a mop with Mystery Oil. Now the patches are coming out complete with no frayed spots or holes.

Just from what little I know, it sounds like my first two cleanings weren't good enough. The bore shines like a mirror so I'm REALLY hoping the next set of patches come out complete.

By the way, I now know the .010" patches probably aren't thick enough and I shouldn't have bought the Pyrodex. I have some .015" and .018" patches and some Graf fffg. My plan is to use the "wrong" stuff up just breaking the barrel in before I get into the "good" stuff to start seriously working up plinking and hunting loads.

 

[bwhoffman]

use a thicker patch and get about 250 shots thru the barrel!
You are on the right tract and your results seem typical of other GPR barrels I have seen and read about here on the forum!
Lymans have pretty sharp lands and take a bit to smooth out.

 

[mykeal]

Yep. Reading patches on a brand new Lyman barrel is an exercise in futility. You really need to get about 100 rounds through it before the patches start telling the truth. And before the groups start to make sense also.

The good news is, it's lots of fun to be able to shoot 100 rounds just for the heck of it, not trying for good scores or tiny groups or anything like that.

Coming up with a good cleaning regimen is as good an excuse as any I've ever heard. I'm going to use it myself, if you don't mind.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Wih my GPR I took a copper bore brush, wrapped some 000 steel wool around it, and gave the bore about 25-ish strokes to polish the bore a tad. By ball 25 she was ON IT!.

Personally I wouldnt knock Pyrodex to hard....I have used it to GREAT effect in my GPR and other guns. Black Powder is good too.

I found 90 grains of Pyro RS over a .015 T/C prelubed patch , and a .530 ball was a GERAT hunting round ~ Very Good accuracy. (NO torn patches )

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[PrimitiveHunter]

Wih my GPR I took a copper bore brush, wrapped some 000 steel wool around it, and gave the bore about 25-ish strokes to polish the bore a tad. By ball 25 she was ON IT!.

Personally I wouldnt knock Pyrodex to hard....I have used it to GREAT effect in my GPR and other guns. Black Powder is good too.

I found 90 grains of Pyro RS over a .015 T/C prelubed patch , and a .530 ball was a GERAT hunting round ~ Very Good accuracy. (NO torn patches )

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I guess I sounded too harsh talking about the Pyrodex. It shoots fine in my rifle and ignites every time. It does stink pretty bad when I run a spit patch. I really was speaking to the fact that after all the work I went to in getting to this point, I decided (after I bought the Pyrodex) that I wanted to stay as faithful as possible to the rifle and shoot black powder. It may not shoot any better or cleaner; it's just more period-correct. That's all.

 

[Swampman]

Nothing wrong with Pyrodex. It works just fine. .010 patches are just too thin.

 

[PrimitiveHunter]

I'll step up to my .015" patches next round. Cabela's only had .010" and .020" patches so I went with the thin ones. I now have .015" and .018" so I'll step up to the .015". The Cabela's patches were pre-lubed with something yellow. I think Wonder 1000. Whatever it is, I'm having a devil of a time getting it out of the barrel when I clean it. Almost-boiling water with soap doesn't cut it. Almost boiling clean water doesn't cut it. It pretty much has to be cleaned out with dry patches. I'm about ready to run some lacquer thinner and see if that will cut it. I got my new patches at TOTW and don't remember what they're pre-lubed with but I hope it isn't the same stuff.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I'll step up to my .015" patches next round. Cabela's only had .010" and .020" patches so I went with the thin ones. I now have .015" and .018" so I'll step up to the .015". The Cabela's patches were pre-lubed with something yellow. I think Wonder 1000. Whatever it is, I'm having a devil of a time getting it out of the barrel when I clean it. Almost-boiling water with soap doesn't cut it. Almost boiling clean water doesn't cut it. It pretty much has to be cleaned out with dry patches. I'm about ready to run some lacquer thinner and see if that will cut it. I got my new patches at TOTW and don't remember what they're pre-lubed with but I hope it isn't the same stuff.

Those should be good patches!
I understand your reasoning behind wanting to use real black!
You are going to LOVE your GPR!!! :hatsoff:

 

[Swampman]

Just make your own patches out of pillow ticking. Use some olive oil for lube. Clean with Windex......all cheap and available. All the powders except BH209 are pretty much the same.

 

[PrimitiveHunter]

I was thinking about buying dry patches and mixing up some Moose Milk or using olive oil. How do you cut your patches? If I have to sit around with a pair of scissors and cut each one, I don't think I'm in on that. I looked at TOTW and all they have is wad cutters. I already have one of those and have cut a couple hundred leather wads. They're soaked in mineral oil but I haven't shot any of them yet.

 

[Bill Hall]

I agree with the futility statement. From what I can tell, you are putting alot of emphasis on cleaning and scrubbing to solve the problem, when in actuallity the lands are just too sharp and rough and cutting your patches. 100% typical of a new barrel.
I think the best way to break in a new barrel is the "natural" method of just shooting it a bunch. When you see the cuts disappear from your patches, you should start seeing your groups tighten up. That's the time to start playing with variables like patch thickness/material, lube, powder amount, ball size, etc. Like stated earlier, about 100 shots or so should start to show a difference. The last GM barrel I broke in had a huge jump in accuracy at around 150 shots. It was like a switch was flipped in the barrel. Have fun. Bill

 

[Swampman]

The patches don't need to be round. I just rip strips and then cut them to length. It's easy as pie.

 

[PrimitiveHunter]

I can handle that. How do you know what thickness you're getting? I would think that all pillow ticking is about the same but when you're talking about .015" vs. .018", I don't think Wal-Mart's quality control is that tight on their material. I can just see me in there with a set of dial calipers measuring each bolt of material. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you didn't FIRST clean out the preservative the manufacturer puts in the barrel, using alcohol to flush the barrel, THEN, and patch lube is only going to add to the GUNK, and make for hard cleaning.

I am using Young County 101 Lube, a predecessor to Bore Butter, and Wonderlube, and other names. The stuff easily cleans out of the barrel using soap and water.

Be careful to inspect your pre-lubed patches AFTER they come out of the barrel- I can't stress that too much. Pre-lubes may have been sitting in boxes in a warehouse for months or years, and if allowed to heat up in hot summers, the fibers will deteriorate. Also, when heated, Bacteria will feed on the Vegetable oil and beeswax used in the lube, eating the fabric with the oil and wax. Whenever you are trying to test fire a rifle, YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO READ your spent PATCHES.

Pick them up after each shot to inspect them for tears, and burning through. There simply is NO POINT to continue to shoot PRBs out of a gun that is burning holes in the patches, or is cutting the patches on the front edge of the lands, or with burrs on the lands. All you are doing is wasting powder, and money better spent. If Gas is blowing by the PRB so that it tearing the edge out of the patch, its a clear indication that the patch is NOT thick enough to fill the grooves in the barrel. You should use a thicker patch. Too hard to put that ball down the barrel with the thicker Patch? Use a smaller diameter ball! If you know how to read spent patches, they will quickly help you find a load combination that works in that barrel.

Once you have those parameters established, then you can adjust powder charges up and down for Trajectory and Accuracy. Once you get an accurate group, THEN you can adjust your sights to move the group to the POA.

There are occasionally barrels where you simply have to use some form of OP wad- wads, cards, corn meal or other filler, wasp nest, folded cleaning patches, etc---- to act as a fire wall to protect your PRB from being burned, or torn. Most tearing is eliminated by polishing the crown, and/or the lands, depending on what the cuts on the patches TELL YOU needs to be done.
The "Permanent fix" is to have a custom mold made to cast the correct diameter ball for your gun and patch combination. They are not that expensive, and Tanner can make you a nice scissor type mold in brass in about any diameter you need, for a relatively small cost.

Stick with Black Powder,and use cast balls, NOT SWAGED BALLS. The swaged balls are notorious for being too hard, having antimony in the lead. They do not upset as well in the barrel as a similar cast ball will, and they are not known to be very ROUND, either.

Most target shooters find that using Cast Pure Lead balls, the diameter of the bore, or LARGER, with a patch thick enough to fill the grooves give the best accuracy. For hunting, you need less accuracy, and more ease of loading, so go with a smaller diameter ball for those purposes. :hmm:

 

[BadHeart]

I can handle that. How do you know what thickness you're getting? I would think that all pillow ticking is about the same but when you're talking about .015" vs. .018", I don't think Wal-Mart's quality control is that tight on their material. I can just see me in there with a set of dial calipers measuring each bolt of material. :grin:

I go in joanns will my calipers. the women don't even look at me funny anymore

 

[PrimitiveHunter]

I can handle that. How do you know what thickness you're getting? I would think that all pillow ticking is about the same but when you're talking about .015" vs. .018", I don't think Wal-Mart's quality control is that tight on their material. I can just see me in there with a set of dial calipers measuring each bolt of material. :grin:

I go in joanns will my calipers. the women don't even look at me funny anymore

I could probably get away with it here in Texas. Most people would mistake the calipers for a handgun and just think I had it out showing it to someone.

 

[Emet Huntsman]

Slightly off topic, but just wondering how many came in here because of the thread topic? :rotf:

 

[the11]

It was this, or the "wet nipples" thread.

 

[rafterob]

You might want to "cut at the muzzle". The patching material is cut into strips the length of the material. You can then pre-lube the strips if you like. Set the short end of the strip over the muzzle, top with a ball and short start it just below the muzzle. Cut off the excess material with a sharp knife, makes nice roundish patches. The shape of the patch really does not matter as has been discussed here many times, square works just as good.

 

[Emet Huntsman]

I AM going to stay away from the "2 hard balls thread" :rotf: :rotf: