Patch Lube - What Qualities/Attributes Are Required?

[Greenjoytj]

Discusion of Patch Lube - What Qualities or Attributes are Required?

In researching patch lubes on this forum I learn that anything slick, oily and greasy can and has been used as a patch lube.

For my own use I advocate the Dutch Schoultz "Dry Lube" method slightly modified (I add Trappers Pure Mink oil grease soaked into over powder wads). Because I use a flintlock rifle (a Lyman GPR 54 cal.) and strive for maximum accuracy. (to quell the belief a flintlock couldn't hit water it fired from a boat). I trust the Dry Lube system to provide the accuracy I want (many shots into one hole).

I admit I haven't tried other lube types or systems (yet) as I'm lazy and wish to fast track to successful shooting accuracy within the limited shooting range time I can put in to practice.
What has been tested and proven work in other rifles I believe it will work in mine. Yes I know and believe each rifle is unique, but what works very well in you gun won't be total manure in mine gun, just slightly different maybe a little better or maybe a little worse. It'll run close to or similar performance.

What do you want patch lube to do?

In keeping with the Dry Lub system its a lube thats not too slippery so I'm using a 7:1 distilled water and Ballistol mix. (the lubed OP wad will alter the total lube ratio).

Why not to slippery?

The dry lube system advocates a less slippery lube I believe its to lessen or stop the patched round ball (PRB) from slipping or skidding across the rifling. A PRB slipping or skidding across the rifling would have the effect of reducing the rifling twist rate. With a loose easy to load PRB combination (very popular) the twist rate could be reduced to something that won't stablize the ball in flight and the rifle now produces smooth bore accuracy levels. I believe the spit patch gets around the too slippy aspect of some lube types (silicone, castor oil anybody?).

What about keeping the bore fouling soft?

Some shooters highly rank the ability of a lube to keep the fouling soft so that loading is easy and many shots can be fired without running into difficult loading. This is a desirable trait to have in a patch lube.
But I am not willing to sacrifice accuracy for ease of loading or the ability to shoot many shots between clean outs.
I worry that the amount of lube required to keep the fouling soft for many shots might cause problems, like PRB skidding on the rifling or just having to push a load of lube up and out might introduce a new set of accuracy wrecking variables.

Because I perform a single damp patch wipe out (Butches BP Bore shine) after each shot to maintain a consistent bore condition I am not so concerned with having a patch lube that will keep fouling soft.
I'm sure that a single between shot wipe out won't keep the bore pristine It will only slow down the the level of fouling accumulating in the bore. I try to feel the friction of wiping and loading on the ramrod and some times do a second or third damp patch wipe out to reset the bore condition to something like it was a few shots ago.

Petroleum base lubes - Eeeks! It'll turn to tar or Asphalt in the bore.
The worry with petrol based lube is that the heat from firing will boil off the lighter solvents present in the petroleum based oils or greases causing them to be distilled into a hard mass that makes loading and cleaning difficult.
So what, there are plenty of powerful cleaners to remove it Goo-Gone, Zippo fuel, naphtha gas, carb cleaner, Dawn and hot water.
I'm sure modern automotive greases of various type would work super in a muzzle loader. It wouldn't surprise me if Ballistol started life in a Kuwait oil well.
So long a this type of lube works, doesn't asphault in the barrel so quickly as to limiting range time to a few shots. The shooter can clean the barrel and if this kind of patch lube works to his satisfaction I say go for it. Just choose a high temperature oil/grease :grin: .

Now onto the holly grail of patch lubes

- The one you concoct your self! What fun to be your own mad scientist and cobble together all the stuff under the kitchen sink, fridge, pharmacy and grocery, hardware store and rendered out of every creature to swim, crawl, walk or fly.
Sure would be fun making it. But its not for me, might be too slippery and the high heat and pressure might distill it into hard carbon crystals :grin: .

Freezing weather
Lube requirement need to be adjusted for freeze temperatures. My own Butches BP BoreShine in not suitable for freezing weather. I tested, it froze solid in my home deep freeze. Even the OP wad grease which is touted to be a cold weather lube stiffens up in the deep freeze.
I'm still searching for a all weather wiping liquid - GM opticlean windshield washer fluid is the front runner so far doesn't freeze and is a cleaner too.

Naturally any patch lube used, either store bought or home brewed must be evaluated on the target range.


So what qualities do you look for in your patch lube?

 

[necchi]

It's not that complicated.
Spit works.

 

[azmntman]

unless you have the rhino virus, then the excess mucus can make the patch to slick :slap: (sorry) :redface:

 

[Grizzly Adams]

My spit keeps fouling soft, allows for wipe free reloading, and strips paint :haha: Spit patches have always worked for me.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I switched recently from my old longtime favorite tallow + beeswax recipe to Castor oil dissolved in denatured alcohol and applied to patches, allowed to evaporate dry and leave a light application of castor oil. It doesn't leave enough lube in the bore to attract and accumulate fouling.

Guess my tallow/beeswax will be relegated to use with wads.

 

[BradCayton]

I use Stumpys, castor oil/bees wax/murphys oil soap, moose snot lube for 80% of my shooting. Plain old spit for the other 20%.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Glad you brought up this subject.
It has never been discussed before.
:shocked2: :stir: :stir: :stir:

 

[Vaino]

I think "spit" is a good patch lube if the donor doesn't have "hoof and mouth" disease or other maladies. But on the downside, why start a plague?

My "vote" for the best patch lube is little known....and quite common. Ear wax has all the "sterling qualities" demanded by the most knowledgeable shooters. It's always available and costs nothing to individual shooters. It's quite surprising that someone hasn't put this on the market.....advertise for people w/ ear problems and "harvest" the "best patch lube" and expound the qualities such as being organic and bio-degradable. It's a sure winner......Fred

 

[azmntman]

Now that is gross :td:

One shot per ear? then what, and I aint never using nobodies else's wax in my guns! :blah:

 

[Vaino]

Buy more from your friendly "ear wax" dealer. C'mon guys, invest in this venture and make a million....Fred

 

[Billnpatti]

By Golly, I think you have it. One thing I might add to your reasoning about how lubes that are too slick operate within the bore is the fact that a lube that is too slick will allow the patched ball to start moving down the bore sooner than one that is not as slick. This results in a loss of breach pressure and a concomitant loss in muzzle velocity. I did an experiment comparing a very slick lubricant on my patch to spit. I found that the MV was lower with the slick lubricant and the standard deviation for the MV was greater.

While I do advocate wiping the bore between shots just as Dutch recommends, I have found that when I use straight Balistol as my patch lube (just damp not dripping wet), there is less fouling and when I have chosen to deviate from the "wipe between every shot" rule, I have found that straight Ballistol allows me to shoot for a long time with no fouling problems......and that is with both a .36 and a .40 caliber rifle. Those small bores usually have more problems with fouling but not so when using straight Ballistol.

Ballistol is great stuff. I use it as a patch lube and mix it 1 to 10 in water to use as a cleaner on both my rifles and on my revolvers. All I use to clean my revolvers is the 1:10 mix. Works like a charm and gets them squeaky clean. but, I just use it to swab out my rifle bore prior to leaving the woods or range. I use the good old soapy water to do the real clean up on my rifles and shotguns.

Oh, yeah....patch lube. Well, not too slick and definitely not petroleum based. After that, either use one of the commercial lubes such as Bore Butter (good stuff), one of the gazillion existing recipes or a recipe from your imagination. The sky is the limit.

 

[Vaino]

You're correct in that resistance creates pressure. But I don't know if the difference of viscosity between bee's wax and spit or the difference in viscosity between other lubes makes an important impact on accuracy in a MLer.

Just what is done w/ the bore after firing multiple shots is to me, more important than the viscosity of the lube....but this is also a minor factor of accuracy.

My .45 squirrel LR has "digested" all sorts of lubes , RBs and patch mat'ls {thickness is critical} and different cleaning procedures and has never needed a sight change.

Black powder generates much lower pressures than smokeless and therefore is much more tolerant of variances in loading components asre accuracy. Anyways, that's what I've experienced.....Fred

 

[coloradoclyde]

Are hypothetical, theoretical questions that can only be answered by individual testing, and result in a plethora of arguments and opinions,........a form of "Trollism" :hmm:

Or am I just over thinking it??

 

[Rifleman1776]

One thing I might add to your reasoning about how lubes that are too slick operate within the bore is the fact that a lube that is too slick will allow the patched ball to start moving down the bore sooner than one that is not as slick.

OK, I'll :stir: some more.
Now, understand, I am just telling the story as I witnessed it. I'm not advocating slick, less slick, nuttin'. Just the facts, man.
Back in the ancient history days of the 1970's there was one of the greatest shooters ever to compete in NMLRA matches. One off-weekend at Friendship, this shooter, and ml wizard by the name of Webb Terry, was testing some new Teflon lubed patches he made using a bench rifle and chronoscope. Those Teflon patches were bought as slickery as you can make a piece of cloth. And they really helped tighten up groups and win matches. Well, folks, Webb did a bunch of shooting over that chrony and, to everyones surprise, he found velocities were lower than when using otherwise identical loads but with other patch lubes. Dunno why, and I don't think he ever figured it out either. :idunno: So, now you go figger wats best with your 'not so slick' theory. :hmm: :grin:

 

[Billnpatti]

Yep, sounds like Web Terry's findings match mine. Remeber I said "I did an experiment comparing a very slick lubricant on my patch to spit. I found that the MV was lower with the slick lubricant and the standard deviation for the MV was greater."

While you said nothing about his standard deviation when comparing MVs of slick VS less slick lubricants, and he may well not have calculated it, the fact that he, too, found that his MVs with the slicker lubricant was lower match exactly with what I found.

 

[FishDFly]

There is some similarity between what Web Terry did with teflon and Dutch’s work, very close resemblance

In Texas there is a following for Teflon. Could be because there is local produced teflon patching.

I have noticed a spread in groups as increased lubrication is applied to patches.

The secret to small groups in consistency. Teflon and Dutch’s teachings give consistency.

Shoot teflon patches, Dutch’s way of lubrication or the old dry lubed Ox-Yoke patches in Phoenix with no humidity, you need a sledge hammer to seat the ball.

There is no magical patch lube

At Friendship there is a following for WD-40 mixed 50/50 with Synthetic motor oil.

For LTF pistol matches it is great, no cleaning at all. Really is nice in the 25 shot match done in 45 minutes.

 

[Billnpatti]

Nope, you are not over thinking it.

My claim as to the effect of lubricity on MV is not hypothetical nor theoretical, I have data to back up my claim. I did an experiment where I compared a slick lubricant with spit. Now, I will admit that I had no way of quantifying the relative lubricity of spit VS the other lubricant. That was a subjective judgement on my part. The slick lubricant was one that I was trying out on a few of my centerfire guns. It really slicked them up so I chose it as my slick lubricant and spit as my less slick lubricant.

The rifle was my .54 cal, planis style rifle that has a 34" Green Mountain barrel. the balls were all weighhed to within 1 grain and the powder was a carefully measured 55 grains of Goex 3f. The chronograph was an Alpha Chrony. Ten shots were used for each lubricant. The barrel was carefully wiped between shots with a damp patch.

The average MV with spit was 1266 fps with a std. dev of 32 fps. (plus or minus 2.54% of the mean)

The average Mv with the slick lube was 1179 fps with a std. dev. of 52 fps (plus or minus 4.36% of the mean.)

 

[Billnpatti]

I didn't address the effect of viscosity on MV, just the effect of lubricity. If one were to assume the same measure of lubricity of a viscous lube and a non-viscous lube, I seriously doubt that there would be any difference due to the viscosity. Most folks apply a relatively small amount of lube to their patch so that the viscosity of the lube would not effect the MV. Any difference would most likey be due to the relative lubricity of any given lube not its viscosity. Since I have done no studies on the effects of viscosity on MV, I have no data to back up my idea, it is just an opinion.

 

[robert reed]

It's not that complicated.
Spit works.

Great googly moogly! Necchi is right. I don't even use spit, may have to try it. It will take too many beers to clear my head after reading that to try today !

 

[coloradoclyde]

When I was shooting competitively, I won every competition with spit. :thumbsup: