PA Flintlock Only

[pamtnman]

And now the SEPA special regulations areas allow straight case centerfire cartridge guns… not confusing at all!

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Look. I'm sorry guys, but if you follow the handbook and don't stray from the guidelines, you'll be in good shape. You don't have to be a lawyer to hunt deer.

Actually, there are several places where the handbook states the law so incorrectly, that a person might be hunting legally, but charged because the handbook is wrong. A few deputies are known to go by the handbook instead of the actual statute and regulations. I beat them in court for clients a few times.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

And now the SEPA special regulations areas allow straight case centerfire cartridge guns… not confusing at all!

Ever since that bogus study that claimed shotgun slugs go as far as rifle slugs, the Game Commission has been looking at really twisted nonsense. I can just see a clown with a 45-120 lobbing a 400 grain slug a few miles. Cartridges designed for small game like the 25-20 WCF are not legal for small game, but are legal for deer. I really liked the opinion from the commission attorney that said cap and ball revolvers are muzzle loaders, then a few days later he issued another opinion that no they aren't and then 2 weeks after the first opinion, said they are centerfire. We have people who do not understand the various firearms and the differences making off the cuff decisions without knowing what they are even talking about.

 

[moose23]

Hey zimmerstutzen, are you still a practicing attorney? Cause if I ever get into a legal situation with the PGC, I’m calling you!! Not that I think I will…I’ve hunted for 31 years in PA, and to my knowledge I’ve never violated a game law. But after reading this thread…..maybe I have!!

 

[Sidney Smith]

Zimmer is an attorney, like I'm a brain surgeon. Armchair quarterback more like. I'll believe his BS the day I'm shown to be in violation of a game law(not that I ever will), by a game warden, and only when he shows me the actual handbook page and rule rule right to my face.

This is the same type of old wives tale as the one during trout season where corn is going to be banned. Been hearing that one for decades too. Or that you will get a $75 dollar fine for killing a praying mantis. Another line of manure passed down to the unquestioning by self righteous know-it-alls. Show me actual proof or shut the piehole.

I'd love to see where it's written that a wheel lock is forbidden in a special regs area. That's a new one on me. I guess the matchlock I'm building won't be legal either. Ha. I'm waiting.

 

[good ole boy]

Don,t rush to judgement on Zimm.Six to 10 years ago I was at a Sportsman show at our local mall.I stopped at the PGC table and was lookin at all of their handouts.There was this real thick paper back book about the size of a dictionary.I was lookin at it and the Warden approached me and said that your hand book you get with your license is a generalization and that the thick book is the one that will keep you out of trouble.There was a stack of em and he let me have it.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Zimmer is an attorney, like I'm a brain surgeon. Armchair quarterback more like. I'll believe his BS the day I'm shown to be in violation of a game law(not that I ever will), by a game warden, and only when he shows me the actual handbook page and rule rule right to my face.

This is the same type of old wives tale as the one during trout season where corn is going to be banned. Been hearing that one for decades too. Or that you will get a $75 dollar fine for killing a praying mantis. Another line of manure passed down to the unquestioning by self righteous know-it-alls. Show me actual proof or shut the piehole.

I'd love to see where it's written that a wheel lock is forbidden in a special regs area. That's a new one on me. I guess the matchlock I'm building won't be legal either. Ha. I'm waiting.

You can't even keep straight what I posted above. For 30 years, wheel locks and matchlocks were not legal throughout most of the state, but were legal in the SRA's. Again you failed to read the regs. It set forth what is legal for muzzle loader season and regular deer season. It said single barrel flint percussion and primer loaded firearms. It did not permit wheel locks and matchlocks outside the SRA's. But that has all changed in May 2020 when the Commission changed the regs around. It even now permits breech loading flintlocks and percussion firearms that use loose powder like the Ferguson Flintlock and the Hall carbine.

Obviously, you never made an attempt to read the regulations cited for you. or you would not have posted such blather. Or you checked recently and found the law has changed in the meantime. In any case it is well apparent that you ignored the sections cited for you by me and Peregine when we cited them.
.

BTW: I graduated from the University of Miami Law school in 1977 and was admitted to practice law in PA, MD and DC. (each by exam) I also tried jury trials in Delaware and Virginia by special admission. I tried over 300 jury trials before retiring. Oh, and my father was a Pennsylvania Wild Life Conservation Officer for 40 years before he retired as a supervisor at the Commission's SE office. I spent a lot of time riding along with him and his deputies. Before law school, I also worked at the state senate legal staff for three years as a bill analyst/researcher for the Republican caucus.

So oh brainiac surgeon, what medical school did you graduate from?

 

[pamtnman]

I’d also like to point out that double barrel flintlock and other double barrel black powder rifles are still verboten by law. I’ve tried to get that changed for years, but instead the agency has gone with allowing straight wall center fire cartridges in SRAs. One thing I did get the agency to propose this year is allowing DMAP tags on leased properties. It’s an amazingly clunky process but it beats the alternative.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I’d also like to point out that double barrel flintlock and other double barrel black powder rifles are still verboten by law. I’ve tried to get that changed for years, but instead the agency has gone with allowing straight wall center fire cartridges in SRAs. One thing I did get the agency to propose this year is allowing DMAP tags on leased properties. It’s an amazingly clunky process but it beats the alternative.

If I recall correctly, double barrels had been legal in the SRA's until the May 2020 change by the Commission. With the new changes, a reproduction Remington revolver carbine is probably legal for deer in the early season. It is a single barrel, percussion, 44 caliber and larger and it is a rifle due to the rifle butt stock and long barrel.

As of the last I checked, there is no definition of what constitutes a muzzle loader pistol or rifle or shot gun. If I put the shoulder stock on my Springfield pistol is it still a pistol? If I have a rifle butt stock on a 12 inch flintlock barrel is it a rifle or a pistol? What constitutes a single barrel. Can a single barrel have more than one bore? Here is the muzzle of a pistol manufactured in Spain a few years ago.

Is this a pistol or rifle:

 

[pamtnman]

Guess it’s up to the arbitrary perspective of the potentially capricious law enforcement officer who finds you with one of these! Wahoo!

 

[Africa58double]

Ok ok- Someone who has Correct info, without Argument and long winded post- please explain to me a few details-

I’d like to hunt the Far West/SouthWest of the state this year, For Late season Muzzloader

I love my Percussion Double .58 - Yet I’m guessing that is Not allowed? Perhaps only Unmentionable gun time I could use?

I have a Tc Renegade .50 Flintlock and a Penn Hunter Carbine Flintlock .50 I just purchased.

Here in Ohio we have a short Muzzleloader season and I’d like to hunt more than 4 days.

So January/February time I’d like to hit some public land.

What’s was the time frame I could hunt- 2 week season usually?

Ps - Late season PA “Flintlock” is For Deer only? Or is bear in there?

And yes I’ll try to figure this out with the regulations on my own.

A Bear with a Flintlock- ya that’s cool, I have some 378gr Tc Maxi and Swiss 2F for that. Wish i could carry both flintlocks at same time if Bear - just kidding…. Yet not really.

 

[good ole boy]

Look on the Pa Game Commission website for all of your clarification.Go right to the Horses mouth so to speak.

 

[Africa58double]

Yes- I’m aware
Of that

Yet it dosnt seem so cut and dry, by the previous post in this thread

Figured perhaps someone who lives in the area would chime in.

I have a 4 season Camper and plan for a few Days in the West/Southwest of Pa

 

[good ole boy]

It is very cut and dry if your talkin percs and flints and inlines.It just isn,t for the other f/arms as Zimm MENTIONED. Our after XMAS late season is F/LOCK only .45 cal and up and .50 cal and up pistol.Our early season is A/Less only and you can use a inline or perc.or flinty .45 cal and up and .50 cal and up pistol.We also now have a Bear Muzzy season which I,m pretty sure includes the same options as the early muzzy except that either sex Bear is legal.Some weapons like Zimm said like the long gone CVA Electra isn,t legal in any Muzzy season but may be allowed in the regular F/arms season.(But I have my doubts)You can also use your Flint or Percs or inlines .45 cal and up(except possibly the Electra)in the regular f/arms season for any Deer that you hold tags for.

 

[good ole boy]

What else do you need to know?

 

[springfield art]

Can anyone point me in the direction to get additional information on PA’s late season flintlock season/hunting. I have gone and researched the state’s website and was looking for more info regarding opportunities. I would like to give this a try and am not a resident of the state. Thanks

The Game Commission publication, Pennsylvania Game News, is a worthwhile buy to subscribe. Always great info, and they have a column; Lock, Stock, and Barrel which is usually muzzleloading information, but not too in depth for the serious ML'er, plus there's lots of In-Line guys in PA. Best of luck!

 

[springfield art]

Look. I'm sorry guys, but if you follow the handbook and don't stray from the guidelines, you'll be in good shape. You don't have to be a lawyer to hunt deer.

NY former Governor wailed, "You don't need ten bullets to kill a deer!" Muzzleloaders don't come anywhere near that number!

 

[good ole boy]

Can anyone point me in the direction to get additional information on PA’s late season flintlock season/hunting. I have gone and researched the state’s website and was looking for more info regarding opportunities. I would like to give this a try and am not a resident of the state. Thanks

Do you need any more info too Bend?

 

[good ole boy]

Yes- I’m aware
Of that

Yet it dosnt seem so cut and dry, by the previous post in this thread

Figured perhaps someone who lives in the area would chime in.

I have a 4 season Camper and plan for a few Days in the West/Southwest of Pa

We have long time friends that camp out here mostly every year durin the early season.It is a blast.Lots of campin opportunities in Pa.

 

[Africa58double]

Can someone explain to me… How on earth you could tell the difference between a Male and Female Bear at 80 yards?
Anyway- my Plan would be For Late season Glamping in mid January. Get a little extended muzzleloader Hunting. Flintlock only… That’s pretty neat. No Bs Red dots/scopes inline Smokeless Stuff. Just Rock Locks and Snow

It is very cut and dry if your talkin percs and flints and inlines.It just isn,t for the other f/arms as Zimm MENTIONED. Our after XMAS late season is F/LOCK only .45 cal and up and .50 cal and up pistol.Our early season is A/Less only and you can use a inline or perc.or flinty .45 cal and up and .50 cal and up pistol.We also now have a Bear Muzzy season which I,m pretty sure includes the same options as the early muzzy except that either sex Bear is legal.Some weapons like Zimm said like the long gone CVA Electra isn,t legal in any Muzzy season but may be allowed in the regular F/arms season.(But I have my doubts)You can also use your Flint or Percs or inlines .45 cal and up(except possibly the Electra)in the regular f/arms season for any Deer that you hold tags for.