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Orion barrel?
- Thread starter TANSTAAFL
- Start date
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Thanks Deadeye. The reason I asked, is on a whim, I picked up a early TC rock lock Hawken with a 15/16" x 32" in .45 caliber, the rifling has narrow lands and wide grooves. The barrel doesn't have an ID mark on it anywhere, but I recall someone saying at one time, Orion made drop in replacement barrels for the TC Hawken.
Work on the set up appears to be quality, if not an Orion, some individual did a very good custom job of it.
Work on the set up appears to be quality, if not an Orion, some individual did a very good custom job of it.
I bought an Orion barrel from TOW a couple years back and it had no markings. It was a new barrel but I assumed they had it on the shelf for a while, since I don't believe Jerry Cunningham is making barrels anymore. It had eight equal lands and grooves and was 50 cal.
Horse Dr.
Horse Dr.
JOHN L. HINNANT
45 Cal.
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
- Messages
- 711
- Reaction score
- 2
Greetings All,
The ORION barrels were the successor to the old MONTANnA barrel company, both located in Kalispell, Montanna. Jerry Cunningham was the owner of MONTANA Barrels and had a connection with ORION Barrels. Exactly what the arrangement was, I do not know.
The same equipment was used to make both brand name barrels and as such, rifling specs and bore sizes were the same.
Both barrels were excellant quality and gave excellant accuracy. Either one in if found in new condition will be a first class basis for a fine shooting rifle.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
The ORION barrels were the successor to the old MONTANnA barrel company, both located in Kalispell, Montanna. Jerry Cunningham was the owner of MONTANA Barrels and had a connection with ORION Barrels. Exactly what the arrangement was, I do not know.
The same equipment was used to make both brand name barrels and as such, rifling specs and bore sizes were the same.
Both barrels were excellant quality and gave excellant accuracy. Either one in if found in new condition will be a first class basis for a fine shooting rifle.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
Thanks guys for all the information, I will just assume it is an Orion barrel, for the description seems to fit.
As I said, never owned a TC, but this longer barreled flinter just seemed to grab me, I picked up it and another ML for resale, but think I will play with this one for a while, if it shoots good, may just keep it.
It is an early TC, nice aged dark walnut with more than a few honest looking dings, but bore is near perfect, and when I installed one of my home made chert flints, it throws an awesome shower of sparks.
As I said, never owned a TC, but this longer barreled flinter just seemed to grab me, I picked up it and another ML for resale, but think I will play with this one for a while, if it shoots good, may just keep it.
It is an early TC, nice aged dark walnut with more than a few honest looking dings, but bore is near perfect, and when I installed one of my home made chert flints, it throws an awesome shower of sparks.
I've had this one for awhile, planning to make a switch barrel for my .75 Hawken whenever I get time. Nothing stamped on it. Jerry just wrote on it with a sharpie, .62 .012 groove Orion.
It's in the white with this still written on it.
It's in the white with this still written on it.
Jerry Cunningham wrote some interesting articles in the 80's in either Muzzle Blasts or Muzzleloader. I think they used 12L14. In his testing, he used a 1" .62cal bbl, with several balls and way overloaded, including unsupported dovetails. No explsions.
In 1989, I bought a bbl from them going out of business, I believe. Its a 1", .58 with deep rifling and 1:48 twist. That thing shoots rb very well.
Also shot some 575213 minnies with 80gr FFg. Three shots, one slightly oblong hole at 25yds off the bench.
I built that bbl into a fullstock flint Hawken, and it has taken quite a few deer.
Java Man
In 1989, I bought a bbl from them going out of business, I believe. Its a 1", .58 with deep rifling and 1:48 twist. That thing shoots rb very well.
Also shot some 575213 minnies with 80gr FFg. Three shots, one slightly oblong hole at 25yds off the bench.
I built that bbl into a fullstock flint Hawken, and it has taken quite a few deer.
Java Man
CrackStock
69 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2004
- Messages
- 3,017
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- 9
I have an Orion .54 barrel and it is not marked.
CS
CS
JOHN L. HINNANT
45 Cal.
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
- Messages
- 711
- Reaction score
- 2
Greetings, Java Man,
Your 1-48" Orion 58 caliber barrel is very, very interesting. I was not aware that Orion used the 1-48" rifling twist in any calibers other than 32, 36, and 40, and optional 45 caliber. The 1-72 was used for the 45 caliber and larger according to their advertising.
The Hawken popularity was at its zenith in the 1980's, and the rifling twist in the originals was 1-48" It would not surprise me if Mr. Cunnungham did a special run of barrels with a 1-48' rifling twist to capitalize on the Hawken rebirth of that time.
About the same time, Golden Age offered a special limited run of barrels made from soft iron with 7 groove rifling, 1-48" rifling. If I remember correct, it was offered in only one caliber and one size across the flats.
GA would not reveal the maker, only that it was made by one of the leading barrel makers in the country. I always thought the barrel maker was Bill Large, but would not be surprised if it was Jerry Cunningham.
Anyway, as I said your barrel is very interesting, and wish I had more background information on it.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
Your 1-48" Orion 58 caliber barrel is very, very interesting. I was not aware that Orion used the 1-48" rifling twist in any calibers other than 32, 36, and 40, and optional 45 caliber. The 1-72 was used for the 45 caliber and larger according to their advertising.
The Hawken popularity was at its zenith in the 1980's, and the rifling twist in the originals was 1-48" It would not surprise me if Mr. Cunnungham did a special run of barrels with a 1-48' rifling twist to capitalize on the Hawken rebirth of that time.
About the same time, Golden Age offered a special limited run of barrels made from soft iron with 7 groove rifling, 1-48" rifling. If I remember correct, it was offered in only one caliber and one size across the flats.
GA would not reveal the maker, only that it was made by one of the leading barrel makers in the country. I always thought the barrel maker was Bill Large, but would not be surprised if it was Jerry Cunningham.
Anyway, as I said your barrel is very interesting, and wish I had more background information on it.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
I know on the .45 bbl flinter, a tight fitting patch will rotate a little over 5/8 turn full length through the 32 inch bbl. So that indicates to me a 1:48 twist. After trying it out, I do know it is deadly accurate at 75 yards, using 50 grains of Graf 3F BP, with a sharp crack and good velocity.
JOHN L. HINNANT
45 Cal.
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
- Messages
- 711
- Reaction score
- 2
Greetings Tanstaafl,
Yes, it would not surprise me to see or hear of Orion or Montana barrel in 45 caliber with A 1-48" rifling twist. Both companies offered the 45 caliber in either 1-48" or 1-72". BOTH shot with great accuracy, and both had a groove depth of .010" TO .012".
My own 45 caliber flinter has an older Hopkins H&H barrel with a 1-48" rifling and .012" deep grooves. Like yours, it is deadly accurate. The grooves are about twice as wide as the lands and a .451 ball with .018" thick patching loads quite easily. While a .445 ball gives very good accuracy, the .451 is decidely more accurate.
A barrel in any caliber with a deep groove 1-48" rifling twist will shoot match level accuracy with a wide range of powder charges, and is never a bad choice.
TODAY, I do prefer the slower twist for hunting rifles. The 1-66" to 1-72" will shoot the 100 grain plus charges more accurately than the 1-48"
If I was going to build a new rifle for hunting deer size or larger game, it would be a 58 caliber with a 1-72" rifling twist. While some might think a 58 caliber is a bit over-kill for deer size game, there is no law against using a less than max powder charge. One of the nice things about a black powder muzzle loader is how they will handle a wide variety of powder charges with good accuracy.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
Yes, it would not surprise me to see or hear of Orion or Montana barrel in 45 caliber with A 1-48" rifling twist. Both companies offered the 45 caliber in either 1-48" or 1-72". BOTH shot with great accuracy, and both had a groove depth of .010" TO .012".
My own 45 caliber flinter has an older Hopkins H&H barrel with a 1-48" rifling and .012" deep grooves. Like yours, it is deadly accurate. The grooves are about twice as wide as the lands and a .451 ball with .018" thick patching loads quite easily. While a .445 ball gives very good accuracy, the .451 is decidely more accurate.
A barrel in any caliber with a deep groove 1-48" rifling twist will shoot match level accuracy with a wide range of powder charges, and is never a bad choice.
TODAY, I do prefer the slower twist for hunting rifles. The 1-66" to 1-72" will shoot the 100 grain plus charges more accurately than the 1-48"
If I was going to build a new rifle for hunting deer size or larger game, it would be a 58 caliber with a 1-72" rifling twist. While some might think a 58 caliber is a bit over-kill for deer size game, there is no law against using a less than max powder charge. One of the nice things about a black powder muzzle loader is how they will handle a wide variety of powder charges with good accuracy.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
