Original Virginia rifle pictures with short LOP

[tecum-tha]

I am thinking about restocking a Pedersoli Hatfield rifle into a Virginia or early Pennsylvania stock. Since I am "somewhat" of an eigth dwarf,my prefered length of pull for hunting is about 12 1/4 inches. Can somebody with those fancy books send me some scans from books with pictures of the stocks of shorter pull rifles? The barrel I have is 7/8",after reworking about 37" long and .50 cal.. It is a flintlock. e-mail is: [email protected]
Thank you

 

[rabjr]

Have you looked at the MBS "Boys Beck" stock?
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/riflesets/lebanonbeck.html

 

[Mike Brooks]

Most all the old rifles have a pull in your length range.

 

[J.D.]

IMHO, if you try to use your existing parts, you will only end up with a Pedersoli with a shorter LOP.

It is the components that determine the architecture of the rifle. The thin, short buttplate of the Pedersoli will translate to a short, narrow buttstock, just like what you currently have. So, IMHO, you will need new furniture to get the architecture of an early VA or PA rifle. That means new buttplate, new triggerguard, new thimbles, new sideplate, and even new lock, 'cause the old one isn't right for an early style of rifle, nor is the Pedersoli lock all that good. And while you are at it, might as well spring for a new barrel so's you can mount the barrel on the stock with pins, like the originals.

Hmmmm, might as well buy a kit of the style of rifle you want.

That said, Eric Kettenburg has several pages of information on PA and VA rifles, both original and his interpretation of originals for your perusal.
http://web.mac.com/kettenburgs/iWeb/Site/Home.html

God Bless,
J.D.

 

[tecum-tha]

I know that I will need some new furniture. Buttplate for sure. I can make some underlugs for that barrel and some ramrod thimbles by myself. The trigger guard can be reshaped a bit,too. Muzzlecap can be made from scratch as well. No, I don´t plan to replace the barrel,I just put in a new breach plug and a new vent liner at the right place and that barrel will be fine (aside from not beeing swamped).I will not change the lock. I have reshaped the pan on the lock and the lock is fast and is working fine. I may change the appearance a bit though. I am currently totally broke due to some well known builder restoring an original jaeger rifle from ca. 1745 for me and I just need some patterns and ideas. I am totally bored and need something to do. I will try my hands on some carving,too. I still have a american cherry blank ready for a longrifle.

 

[J.D.]

I know that I will need some new furniture. Buttplate for sure. I can make some underlugs for that barrel and some ramrod thimbles by myself. The trigger guard can be reshaped a bit,too. Muzzlecap can be made from scratch as well. No, I don´t plan to replace the barrel,I just put in a new breach plug and a new vent liner at the right place and that barrel will be fine (aside from not beeing swamped).I will not change the lock. I have reshaped the pan on the lock and the lock is fast and is working fine. I may change the appearance a bit though.

Well, in that case, I'm sorry I brought it up. :grin: Just kidding.

Sounds like you have a plan. Rebreaching the Ped barrel is a great way to improve ignition in addition to making it easier to clean. IMHO, Ped barrels are good shooters, so since you can do all of that work, go for it.

And like Mr. Brooks said, there are many original rifles with your LOP. The Faber comes to mind with a LOP of 12 3/4 inches, if I remember correctly.

God Bless,
J.D.

 

[J.D.]

Just remembered another page with a few origianls and several good contemporary pieces. The LOP can be adjusted to nearly anything you want...with a little finessing of the design.
http://www.flintriflesmith.com/rifles & guns.htm

 

[tecum-tha]

Swamp Rat,
I have used the Beck dimensions and have added a little more comb like in earlier rifles. I will make a cardboard pattern and see if it is pleasing to shoulder for me.

J.D.,
when I bought the Pedersoli 14 years or so ago, I didn´t know sh... about flintlocks. With the years and some friends in the US my knowledge has increased. I always had problems with this rifle,the ignition was always bad (hangfire...). The reason was the touchhole liner at the wrong place and the "patented breech plug" not suitable for flintlocks IMHO. Because I would not even get enough money out of it matching the price of the parts, I rather use the parts for something useful. I may build a nice looking and straight shooting rifle in the style I like, even though not 100% correct in style. But who cares, not me in that case. :wink:

 

[tecum-tha]

Ok,I imported the picture from the stock into my CAD and magnified it to the real size. Printed it out,put a trigger on the position where it is approximately on the old Pedersoli rifle in relationship to the end of the barrel.Adjusted the LOP,stretched it 10% into the Y-position and modified the height of the comb to make it a little earlier style. The cardboard template is ready and it seems to fit me very good. Thank you for the link. :bow:

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Keep in mind when shortening or lengthening a stock profile to account for the drops. Most stocks do not have a comb parallel to the bore and any change in LOP changes the drops. You can get too much comb by shortening or not enough by lengthening.
LOP is the least important measurement in itself(within reason) but at the same time the most important because all other dimensions must be built around it.

 

[tecum-tha]

The drop was adjusted when I stretched it in the y-direction. When I shoulder it now, I look right over the top flat of the barrel. When I make a wooden template I`ll be 100% sure that the drop is right for that freaking body.

 

[tecum-tha]

Swamp rat,
thanks one more for the link to MBS.
They will send me all the necessary tools and parts for this conversion next week. When everything works out right, it should arrive here in Germany before X-mas. That will make X-mas much less boring )

 

[rabjr]

Glad it helped you. I actually have that stock that I hope to finish up sometime this coming spring/summer into a nice .45 cal. :thumbsup:

 

[tecum-tha]

Swamp Rat, what is the distance between the barrel inlet bottom and the bottom of the ramrod channel on this stock? Thanks!

 

[rabjr]

From the bottom of the barrel channel to the bottom of the ramrod hole is roughly .597". The web between the barrel and the ramrod hole is .222".

 

[tecum-tha]

So there is 0.222" of wood left between the barrel and the ramrod channel,right?

 

[rabjr]

The web is that wide yep.

 

[tg]

It might be a challenge to alter the architecture into another "school" I have seen some guns from one of the Penn schools that it may be possible to get close to I just can't recall it would likley be a post 1800 era style, I know you can take a lot of wood off the forestock and sort of blend that big ramrod sized moulding on each side a bit, I would look thru the Schumway/Kindig books and find the closest thing there and try to go for as much of it as you can get with what you have to work with.

 

[tecum-tha]

Ok, I will start to work on the barrel channel with the router tomorrow and will start to rout the ramrod channel and cut the rest of the stock out to my dimensions. I guess then it is ramrod hole drilling time. I will use a 3/8" ramrod and will drill with a 10mm gun drill my Dad made. I used it on my jaeger rifle with sucess,too.
I have to clean up some feathers for some arrows on the belt sander first.

 

[tecum-tha]

tg,you`re right here. It will be a rifle that could have been buildt in the 1760is to 1770ies.
Usually I am in favor of jaeger rifles, but I want to buildt something halfway useful out of that Pedersoli. I think I blended pretty good in that time frame.Unfortunately, I don´t have any of the books, but I will keep you posted as the work progresses.