-
This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.
Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades -
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Opinions of Pedersoli Indian Trade gun
- Thread starter gdick
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Got to use one owned by a friend all last season. Did very little shot chunking so can't say a lot there, but round ball was accurate for a smooth bore and I found out how far off course a .600" ball will go if you accidently hit a twig! :thumbsup: Couldn't find much wrong with it.
Mine shoots very well. I like 70 grains of 3Fg and a one ounce load of shot. I also like 70 grains of 3Fg and a .590 ball held in a paper cartridge. I've found the front sight post is very high, but have not reduced it as I will be adding a rear sight.
As for the hardware and appearance, the wood to metal fit is very good. The lock sparks very well, but you can see the line formed when they quenched it during hardening, and it wasn't done very well. The ramrod is a bit flimsy, as I don't think the Italians pay much attention to the grain, so it is being replaced with a more durable wooden ramrod... this is a common problem with wooden Pedersoli ramrods.
As for history, well it sorta looks like a NW Trade Gun. I swapped out the steel trigger guard for a brass guard, and changed the sideplate to a simpler brass one as well. I removed the case coloring from the lock, and will probably cease to use the wood screw that sits forward of the frizzen spring, and will fill the hole in the lock plate with something. I am having a rear sight put on the gun as I mentioned for this is a hunting gun and living history gun; I'm not worried about smoothbore shooting matches . The blued screws in the butt plate will be returned to the white and be allowed to develop their own patina.
It will be closer to a generic fusil and not a trade gun when I'm done. Other than the cheapo ramrod wood, the only objections are cosmetic.
LD
As for the hardware and appearance, the wood to metal fit is very good. The lock sparks very well, but you can see the line formed when they quenched it during hardening, and it wasn't done very well. The ramrod is a bit flimsy, as I don't think the Italians pay much attention to the grain, so it is being replaced with a more durable wooden ramrod... this is a common problem with wooden Pedersoli ramrods.
As for history, well it sorta looks like a NW Trade Gun. I swapped out the steel trigger guard for a brass guard, and changed the sideplate to a simpler brass one as well. I removed the case coloring from the lock, and will probably cease to use the wood screw that sits forward of the frizzen spring, and will fill the hole in the lock plate with something. I am having a rear sight put on the gun as I mentioned for this is a hunting gun and living history gun; I'm not worried about smoothbore shooting matches . The blued screws in the butt plate will be returned to the white and be allowed to develop their own patina.
It will be closer to a generic fusil and not a trade gun when I'm done. Other than the cheapo ramrod wood, the only objections are cosmetic.
LD
One of my most favorite guns though I love them all equally! The longer I own it the more I like it. No surprise -- it IS a Pedersoli after all.
Perpetual detractors commonly parrot the trigger/guard is 1/32" not oversized enough, the lock is too beautiful, that the serpent/dragon backplate should be drilled out where it loops, and that it isn't custom made -- whatever.
But I actually own and shoot one...
Perpetual detractors commonly parrot the trigger/guard is 1/32" not oversized enough, the lock is too beautiful, that the serpent/dragon backplate should be drilled out where it loops, and that it isn't custom made -- whatever.
But I actually own and shoot one...
DanChamberlain
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2007
- Messages
- 612
- Reaction score
- 9
I bought an "In The White" kit from Dixie. It's a Pedersoli. I like it a lot. Haven't shot a ball from it yet, but it seems to kill the squirrels just fine with shot. I gotta say, given how long it takes to load a front-stuffer, I'm surprised the Indians wanted them over their bows.
Howdo....where in Gods country are you :thumbsup:
love mine....after I case hardend the frizzen and lightened the frizzen spring! Now I get 30 plus shots with light flint knapping.
Not got any .600" balls only .562" and although not very ideal, when double patched they would be usefull to forty yards on large game! If err we could!
I load 1&1/8oz and taken pheasant and woodcock all last season.
B.
love mine....after I case hardend the frizzen and lightened the frizzen spring! Now I get 30 plus shots with light flint knapping.
Not got any .600" balls only .562" and although not very ideal, when double patched they would be usefull to forty yards on large game! If err we could!
I load 1&1/8oz and taken pheasant and woodcock all last season.
B.
I use the Pedersoli Trade since 2008. With patched ball it was never possible to get a better group than 12" at 50 meters. But paper cartridge with .600 ball + .58 wad in the paper + 54 gr. Swiss (= one case of .308 win) can hold 3" out to 65 meters with 5 shots. I mounted a rear sight to do that...
Thanks for all the advice folks it is much appreciated, now to do some negotiating ! Britsmoothy I am located near Melrose in the Scottish Borders and like you would love to stalk deer with my muzzleloader. I have a Pedesoli Kentucky .45 flintlock rifle and just starting my journey into the muzzle loading world.
See you thru the smoke
Reiver XXV :thumbsup:
See you thru the smoke
Reiver XXV :thumbsup:
:hatsoff:
I stoned it thinner, took ages and did not do much.
I put the frizzen in the stove in a small can full of charcoal, coal, leather and engine oil.
Kept adding kindling until can contents consumed and frizzen red hot for 1/2 an hour or so. Extracted it and just losing a dull red quenched it with boiling water. My frizzen had a twist in it's grind so I flattened it with a grinder as best I could guess, hence the need to harden it. The flatting was the most important improvement.
It is a slow lock, I opened the vent some too and find my lock works best with the pan full of 4f and no vent pricking.
B.
I put the frizzen in the stove in a small can full of charcoal, coal, leather and engine oil.
Kept adding kindling until can contents consumed and frizzen red hot for 1/2 an hour or so. Extracted it and just losing a dull red quenched it with boiling water. My frizzen had a twist in it's grind so I flattened it with a grinder as best I could guess, hence the need to harden it. The flatting was the most important improvement.
It is a slow lock, I opened the vent some too and find my lock works best with the pan full of 4f and no vent pricking.
B.
Hardening or softening steel does not change the force needed to bend it.
The Module of Elasticity is a number that describes a materials ability to resist bending.
The value for a given steel is the same if the steel is hard or soft.
It also is almost exactly the same for low carbon steel or for high alloy steels.
For anyone that cares, the value for steel is about 29,000,000 psi.
Said in a more real world way, if you have two pieces of a 1/4 inch diameter steel rod one foot long with one totally soft and the other hardened to the hardness of a file, and you clamp one end to a table and hang a 1 pound weight from the other end both the hard and the soft rod will bend exactly the same amount.
The only way to change this is to make the part out of a different material.
Now, I went thru all of this to give you folks some understanding of my next comment.
Do not try to change the force a spring makes by trying to heat treat it. It will do no good and most likely you will end up removing the hardness that is needed to make the spring work.
If you do soften the spring, after it bends it will not return to its original position.
In other words, it will ruin it.
The force a flat spring makes depends on the Modulus of Elasticity, the width and the thickness of the spring.
The width of the flat spring effects the force directly. That is, if the spring width is reduced by 1/3, the force it develops is reduced by 1/3. Reducing the width by 1/2 will reduce the force by 1/2.
The thickness of the flat spring effects the force by the square of the thickness.
Reducing the thickness to 1/2 of its original thickness will decrease the force to 1/4 of its original force.
Reducing the thickness to 1/3 of its original thickness will decrease the force to 1/9 of its original force.
As you can see, it doesn't take a lot of thickness reduction to greatly effect the force the spring will deliver.
On a negative side with this force reduction is when it is done, the stresses in the spring material go up for a given amount of bending.
That can result in a spring breaking when the materials strength limits are exceeded.
Just something to think about.
The Module of Elasticity is a number that describes a materials ability to resist bending.
The value for a given steel is the same if the steel is hard or soft.
It also is almost exactly the same for low carbon steel or for high alloy steels.
For anyone that cares, the value for steel is about 29,000,000 psi.
Said in a more real world way, if you have two pieces of a 1/4 inch diameter steel rod one foot long with one totally soft and the other hardened to the hardness of a file, and you clamp one end to a table and hang a 1 pound weight from the other end both the hard and the soft rod will bend exactly the same amount.
The only way to change this is to make the part out of a different material.
Now, I went thru all of this to give you folks some understanding of my next comment.
Do not try to change the force a spring makes by trying to heat treat it. It will do no good and most likely you will end up removing the hardness that is needed to make the spring work.
If you do soften the spring, after it bends it will not return to its original position.
In other words, it will ruin it.
The force a flat spring makes depends on the Modulus of Elasticity, the width and the thickness of the spring.
The width of the flat spring effects the force directly. That is, if the spring width is reduced by 1/3, the force it develops is reduced by 1/3. Reducing the width by 1/2 will reduce the force by 1/2.
The thickness of the flat spring effects the force by the square of the thickness.
Reducing the thickness to 1/2 of its original thickness will decrease the force to 1/4 of its original force.
Reducing the thickness to 1/3 of its original thickness will decrease the force to 1/9 of its original force.
As you can see, it doesn't take a lot of thickness reduction to greatly effect the force the spring will deliver.
On a negative side with this force reduction is when it is done, the stresses in the spring material go up for a given amount of bending.
That can result in a spring breaking when the materials strength limits are exceeded.
Just something to think about.
smoothshooter
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
- Messages
- 3,482
- Reaction score
- 2,171
I have been told that the Pedersoli trade gun has a reduced sized powder chamber. Is that true?
Thanks but I never mentioned heating the/a spring or bending anything :hmm:
B.
B.
I think mine has but not reduced by much as a mini mag light comes real close. The vent liner is a M8 thread and about 9-10mm (3/8") deep.
B.
B.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
FOR SALE Centennial centaur serial #205 1860 Army IMMACULATE made in 1959 reduced- Latest: Blackpowderwarrior
-
-
FOR SALE Centennial centaur unfired 1860 Army Reduced Again 700
- Latest: Blackpowderwarrior
-
-
-
-
