Old and New Percussion Cap Tins

Discussion in 'Accoutrements' started by musketman, Apr 3, 2004.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Apr 3, 2004 #1

    musketman

    musketman

    musketman

    Passed On

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    10,652
    Likes Received:
    1
    We all seen and used them, (unless you're a die-hard pre-percussion shooter) anyone ever save those tins and plactic containers?

    Some day, they'll be a collectors item too, like these older tins mixed in with the newer ones...

    Gevelot Fabrique, 1 mm Percussion Caps
    Brass Tin, Made in Belgium, Circa 1880
    [​IMG]
    Original Tin of Rifle/Musket Caps. Measures 2 3/8 inches in diameter, never been opened... [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Apr 11, 2004 #2

    Ohio Joe

    Ohio Joe

    Ohio Joe

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    0
    musketman,,, I always save my percussion tins... Not because they may become collectables, (which they might), but because I use them to store precut lubed patches, spare flints, nipples, lube, anything that'll fit in them... The musket cap tins are really handy too for cleaning patches and such... The musket cap tins are also good for char'cloth but I wouldn't go any smaller then that tin for that purpose... You probably know all that anyway. :D
     
  3. Apr 13, 2004 #3

    gordy

    gordy

    gordy

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    0
    I too save he tins! But for same the reason stated by Joe.It's funny even those of us who have a great interest in History,fail to remember that someday the equipment We now use will be the interest of generations to come. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  4. Aug 6, 2013 #4

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    70 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    76
    I got in a verbal discussion with a Game Warden here about whether my cap and ball revolver was "centerfire" PA law limits firearms for deer to centerfire or muzzle loader. I pulled out the 1970's era Remington cap tin, in which I keep the grease to smear over the chambers in the field. There, clear enough The Remington label said 100 percussion caps "Center Fire" Told him I had some Winchester, Eley and UMC cap tins around that said the same. I figured the Remington and Winchester companies who manufactured ammo and guns and designed firearms for over a century each wouldn't label percussion caps as centerfire unless the guns using them were centerfire. You should have seen his face.
     
  5. Aug 6, 2013 #5

    MSW

    MSW

    MSW

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    7,133
    Likes Received:
    31
    quick thinking on your part ... rather a sad commentary on the ever growing size of the group of folks who's job it is to enforce laws they don't understand.

    make good smoke!
     
  6. Aug 6, 2013 #6

    preston cook

    preston cook

    preston cook

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    0
    soooooooooooo! if cb revolvers by that definition are center fire ,wouldn't that make them subject to the same rules and registration as other center fire revolvers? :confused: :v
     
  7. Aug 6, 2013 #7

    Rifleman1776

    Rifleman1776

    Rifleman1776

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    15,572
    Likes Received:
    321
    Location:
    Arkansas Ozarks
    Yes, they are becoming collectible. I have several Navy Arms tins with the red label. What vintage is your white label one?
    I also have a number of plastic 'tins' from foreign makers.
     
  8. Aug 6, 2013 #8

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    70 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    76
    Old enough?

    [​IMG]

    Joseph Goldmark was a Hungarian chemist who developed percussion caps using red phosphorus. He was a leader of a failed revolt against the Austro-Hungarian Empire and escaped to the US, where he set up a company manufacturing percussion caps in 1856. His caps were then contracted to be made by Wehle and then later were made by the American Flask and Cap Company. He became quite wealthy selling caps to the Union during the War of Northern Aggression and eventually sold his company to Winchester, which became the Olin Company Goldmark caps were still sold by Winchester as late as about 1950. His children all became rather noted as well, some being in banking, manufacturing etc. One of his daughters married a US Supreme Court Justice.
     
  9. Aug 6, 2013 #9

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    70 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    76
    These are indentical to the Remington cap tin I mentioned. Note the words "Center Fire"

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Aug 6, 2013 #10

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    70 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    76
    [​IMG]

    clicked the wrong link
     
  11. Aug 7, 2013 #11

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    70 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    76
  12. Aug 30, 2013 #12

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    9,343
    Likes Received:
    617
    Location:
    Republic mo
    1)Don't the nipple go right in to the center of the chamber?....I guess its a center fire caseless.....2)I have a lot of old tins,but I tossed them in the fire and burned off the paint. Handy for patchs ,lube greese, pepper, new caps ect
     
  13. Aug 31, 2013 #13

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    70 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    76
    As I understand it, centerfire is a form of ignition, just like flint, wheel lock, match lock,etc. Percussion caps are designed to force the fire through the center of the nipple. The nipple serves as the anvil against which the fulminate or other chemical is smashed. There were in fact cartridges, apparently used until recently in Australian in which the percussion cap was inserted into the base of the fixed cartridge on top of a replaceable anvil.

    [​IMG]

    Berdan primers are really just wide bowl shaped percussion caps that fit over a depression in the base of a cartridge case that has the anvil built into the case. The standard boxer primers are just redesigned percussion caps with anvils inserted into the primer cup.

    Rim fire on the other hand uses the outside of the chamber as the anvil to strike the priming compound.

    Years ago, one shooter I met made a "nipple replacement" into which he placed a 22 blank and the musket hammer struck that to ignite the charge in his musket.

    So the fire comes from the center of the percussion cap, as it does from a Berdan primer or Boxer primer.

    Indeed during the transition period of firearms about the mid 18th century, fixed cartridges were made that utilized a percussion cap over a nipple in the base. The first Gatling guns, some early shot guns. etc.
     
  14. Sep 4, 2013 #14

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    9,343
    Likes Received:
    617
    Location:
    Republic mo
    I'm sorry...It was ment as a joke.
     
  15. May 14, 2019 #15

    JB67

    JB67

    JB67

    32 Cal

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    NY's Hudson Valley
    I hope you aren't serious. Cap and ball is not centerfire, no matter how one finesses it. Centerfire is a percussion cap inserted into the base of a metallic cartridge. They were labeled centerfire so people wouldn't use them for muzzleloaders or C&B pistols.
     
  16. May 14, 2019 #16

    Felix the Cat

    Felix the Cat

    Felix the Cat

    36 Cl.

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2018
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    30
    Those are primers for UK designed shotgun cartridges which were in use until very recently. They were sold in UK as "Surefire" primers, but were made up with the anvil fitted. The Australian version may have been packaged separately for shipping purposes..

    Eley Kynoch shotgun cartridges did not use US style "battery cup" primers. The UK practice was to leave the battery cup in the base of the cart and only change the primer cup and anvil.

    Surefire primers were widely used in WW2 in a range of ammunition natures such as safety fuze igniters and booby trap switches. The infamous "Time Pencil" delayed action fuze used a Surefire primer.

    Proper top hat percussion caps were used by the military in WW2 for two devices.. the Northover Projector issued to the Home Guard, and in a version of the "Railway Detonator", normally used for warning signals on railroads, but which a modified version with a fuze takeoff was issued to the French Resistance for blowing up trains..!
     
  17. May 14, 2019 #17

    Hiparoo

    Hiparoo

    Hiparoo

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    SW Coloradostan
    Unopened cap tins in my possession. Dated 1878 Staynless Centerfire Wnchester. I have another tin that was opened, I use those caps.
    36383554_10212586732966532_7736723795162955776_o.jpg 36376256_10212586732726526_4257714918632980480_o.jpg
     
  18. May 14, 2019 #18

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,067
    Likes Received:
    263
    Location:
    South Texas
    I think a few used percussion tins are swell storage containers in a shooting bag. My question to y'all is how or do you even bother to label them? Most of mine look alike. Sometimes memory alone isn't all that reliable. Is masking tape used? Are they numbered? Scratched with a pocket knife?
     
  19. May 14, 2019 #19

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Moderator Staff Member MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    27,871
    Likes Received:
    634
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    You saved me the trouble of showing my tin of Winchester Centerfire percussion caps. :)

    JB67: These are the same style of caps that are currently being sold by CCI, Remington and Dynamite Nobel and they are intended to be used on the typical percussion nipple. The only real difference between these Winchester caps and the ones currently on the market is, these caps have a foil seal over the priming compound to make them water proof.
     
  20. May 14, 2019 #20

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    70 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    76
    Maybe you should take that up with UMC, Remington and Winchester. All US made number 11 percussion caps were labeled center fire or central fire until about 1970. I think the manufacturers knew infinitely more about it. I had this go round with a Game warden in PA. I was using a cap and ball revolver during deer season. He claimed the weapon was illegal for deer. I claimed it was center fire and produced numerous cap tins in which PERCUSSION caps were labeled "center fire' the law at the time said any centerfire weapon was legal for deer.

    Maybe you should go back and read the earlier posts, like post 11, where there is a picture of Musket caps labeled center fire, or one of the other posts where Remington PERCUSSION caps were labeled center fire. I do not have to finesse anything, you are simply wrong. [​IMG][​IMG]https://imgur.com/a/hOK3kyd
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019

Share This Page



arrow_white